Anyone concern with the Genesis Low Sales Figures

[musher51]

I agree with you Doug, Just because someone is not a 100% fanboy and has a brain it seems to challenge the correctness of these guys buying decision and they feel they must defend it or look bad. That is of course not the case we bought the car also and love most of it, Personally I admit to looking bad for not having given the car a sufficient wring out in the ride department. Personally I just hate the harsh ride, but that someway makes me classless, a whiner, and generally a bad person, but the guys that will not fix the problem (Hyundai) are great guys. Make one wonder. Defend forever is good posting, point out an area of deficiency is bad posting, go figure.

Don -- as a long-time forum member that has specifically refrained from engaging in the ride/suspension debate, I finally feel compelled to weigh in and attempt to clarify the central issue. It's not that members who don't have an issue with the ride/suspension don't ever want to read postings from those that do. For me, at least, it's the sheer repetition of the theme that has worn thin. I suspect you'd feel the same way if the pro-ride contingent couldn't resist peppering numerous threads with their positive, so-called "fanboy" opinions (whether they were relevant to the thread topic or not).

Frankly, one of the reasons I've largely stopped visiting this site is that the ride/suspension topic seemed to dominate everything else in the latter part of '09, and in the absence of an obvious solution (short of selling one's car), what value-add is there is rehashing everything? Another indicator of a topic-gone-bad is a digression into name-calling, which certainly characterizes many recent exchanges on this topic.

I doubt anyone would disagree that the ride/suspension issue has been covered in excrutiating detail via numerous threads on this site for more than a year. As with ANY OTHER TOPIC, can't we agree that enough is enough and move on to other, new topics of interest?

So, what else is new with this group of Genesis owners lately?

 

[prbwantedalexus]

ttsig mentioned something that I'd like to speak on regarding Hyundai dealerships and the subject of the Genesis car sales.

If it was not for the countless reviews I've read and the teat drives, I wouldn't have chosen to get the car. I've been to three Hyundai dealers, two in my state of NJ and one in Texas. The dealership experience was dreadful. There was nothing about any of them that would have made me want to buy the car. Heck, I left all three wondering if they were trying to sell the Gensis because they didn't go through the car. I already know it was high rated, tell me something to make want to buy the car, be more knowledgeable about the car than I am, don't just plop me down after a test drive and then aggressively try to get me to buy a car you honestly did not impress me with.

Honestly, if Hyundai wants to compete with the luxury car makers they're going to have to learn how to treat those of us who have had the luxury car dealership experience. They're at least selling the car so you'd want to make a deal.

Also, to the starter of this thread, the car just came out, and well, the car is a Hyundai. It took me looking into the car myself, before I was willing to give it a chance and ultimately choose it over the TL even though the TL nav system was hard to walk away from because it truly says luxury. Futhermore, I got the Altima when it first came out. For a while I was one of few people driving one. Give it time. If Hyundai keeps
doing things right and after the Equus comes out, trust me, people WILL take notice.

 

[flyboy2]

All of you pampered little babies with luxury car experience are naive and missing the boat. If you're somewhat sophisticated and in the upper income bracket you must have had some sales experience? Personally I've been selling for the last forty years.

When I walked into one of the three Hyundai dealers within a thirty mile area both the salesman and sales managers were sitting ducks. They didn't know what hit them. They were use to selling to the simple people who bought small cars. I was aggressive and somewhat rude. They hadn't had any experience with upper income people before and didn't quite know how to handle me. I had to explain the positives and the negatives of the car to the sales people. I told the sales manager things about the Genesis that he hadn't heard about. I convinced him to loan me a car to it "check out". He gave me a new Genesis to take home for 24 hours to test drive it.

When I came back I told him things about the car that bothered me, (not really) then low balled him. When he said no I started to walk out the door and told him I was headed to the other Hyundai dealer. They called me back and excepted my deal.

Who in the heck wants to deal with a sophisticated BMW or MB salesman who thinks he's a gift from God and knows every sales trick in the book. Get real people. You can get a better deal from an unsophisticated sales person. I don't care what the dealer looks like. The worst looking usually means the better price for the car. It's the car that counts. You can get it serviced anywhere. Those of you living in smaller cities don't have the luxury of a number of Hyundai dealers around. Just head for the door and tell them you're going to look at the Fords. You should also note that dealers don't really make money on selling you a car. They make their money on getting your car serviced with them. The price they sell you a car is not that important to them--

 

[LRH]

I live in Memphis and bought my 2009 4.6 sedan last August. Since then I have only seen two other sedans. While I've thought that strange, I haven't really been concerned. BTW, I love the 09 suspension!

 

[Mark_888]

Don -- as a long-time forum member that has specifically refrained from engaging in the ride/suspension debate, I finally feel compelled to weigh in and attempt to clarify the central issue. It's not that members who don't have an issue with the ride/suspension don't ever want to read postings from those that do. For me, at least, it's the sheer repetition of the theme that has worn thin. I suspect you'd feel the same way if the pro-ride contingent couldn't resist peppering numerous threads with their positive, so-called "fanboy" opinions (whether they were relevant to the thread topic or not).

Frankly, one of the reasons I've largely stopped visiting this site is that the ride/suspension topic seemed to dominate everything else in the latter part of '09, and in the absence of an obvious solution (short of selling one's car), what value-add is there is rehashing everything? Another indicator of a topic-gone-bad is a digression into name-calling, which certainly characterizes many recent exchanges on this topic.

I doubt anyone would disagree that the ride/suspension issue has been covered in excrutiating detail via numerous threads on this site for more than a year. As with ANY OTHER TOPIC, can't we agree that enough is enough and move on to other, new topics of interest?

So, what else is new with this group of Genesis owners lately?

Many of the most recent posts about the 2009 suspension have little to with whether the suspension is acceptable or not, but with GripperDon complaining that Hyundai will not fix it or even help him identify how to get the 2009 to 2010 specs. Although I am also a little tired of GripperDon crashing every thread to complain about HMA customer service with regard to this issue, I don't think the 2009 suspension is a settled matter since it is not inconceivable that one could get the 2010 parts and have them installed at independent shop, and this would be much less expensive then selling the car and buying a new one. So some "rational" discussion along these lines should be permitted, and even appreciated by many members who might want to make a swap of some of the suspension parts (members seem to want to swap everything else on the car, so why not the rear springs/shocks?).

But I do agree that there is a difference between discussing (in a rational manner) replacing the rear shocks and springs to 2010 specs, and trying to flame HMA in every thread for their perceived indifference on this subject (regardless of whether I agree or disagree with GripperDon in substance). But I guess with what is going on at Toyota, flaming auto manufacturers seems to be the latest craze (Toyota even gets flamed on this site).

 

[wallymn]

So trying to get this thread a little back on topic.

Does anyone know how many 09/10 Tau based Genesis have been sold?

 

[GripperDon]

Tell you what MUSHER and 888, I will only post about the suspension being bad in my opinion when others post about it being great in their opinion. Additionally I will also continue to say the good things I do about the car, e.g. Sound system, Styling, (exterior and interior) and give technical input on alterations I and others have made including tires, etc. and tests I made like seeing if MY brakes Smashed full hard would bring the car to a stop while the throttle was pressed full on at 60mpg plus other technical areas not related to suspension. I also will not knock Hyundai unless I personally receive a poor action from them or their dealer directly to me.

Now, that seems more than fair to me, lets see if others really want to have my negative suspension comments put in abeyance, it's easy, don't keep saying its great and I won't keep saying it's harsh. (p.s. I am not the only person that feels as I do about the suspension and I am not making pledges for them)

 

[Mark_888]

So trying to get this thread a little back on topic.

Does anyone know how many 09/10 Tau based Genesis have been sold?

Personally, I don't care how many Genesis are sold (or Genesis V8's or Genesis V6's). I actually don't like seeing other cars that look like mine. I am at a complete loss as to why others care, since the bread and butter of whether Hyundai is profitable (which we probably should care about) is the Sonata, etc.

This whole subject sounds like some kind of insecurity to me.

 

[Sayantsi]

So trying to get this thread a little back on topic.

Does anyone know how many 09/10 Tau based Genesis have been sold?

Best i've seen in anecdotal comments from Hyundai of 1,100-1,200 per month. I can only assume, ~24k/yr.

 

[Sayantsi]

Personally, I don't care how many Genesis are sold (or Genesis V8's or Genesis V6's). I actually don't like seeing other cars that look like mine. I am at a complete loss as to why others care, since the bread and butter of whether Hyundai is profitable (which we probably should care about) is the Sonata, etc.

This whole subject sounds like some kind of insecurity to me.

I can agree with this - I buy cars based on merits, not popularity, and some of my favorite cars I've owned I can bet you've never heard of or seen, not because they are exotic, but because they are just rare.

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[Hghwy52]

Personally, I don't care how many Genesis are sold (or Genesis V8's or Genesis V6's). I actually don't like seeing other cars that look like mine. I am at a complete loss as to why others care, since the bread and butter of whether Hyundai is profitable (which we probably should care about) is the Sonata, etc.

This whole subject sounds like some kind of insecurity to me.

Tell that to people who bought a 1990 Infiniti Q45 instead of a Lexus LS and watched their resale value plummet vs the Lexus. Without fairly strong sales, dealers will be less inclined to push the Genesis, it will receive less corporate support, it won't get the respect or attention it deserves, sales will fall further, and eventually the Genesis will go the way of the Q45.

I'm not saying that will happen to the Genesis - it is way to early to tell. I'm just saying that people who love the Genesis have reason to be concerned over whether or not it is a sales success.

 

[wallymn]

Personally, I don't care how many Genesis are sold (or Genesis V8's or Genesis V6's). I actually don't like seeing other cars that look like mine. I am at a complete loss as to why others care, since the bread and butter of whether Hyundai is profitable (which we probably should care about) is the Sonata, etc.

This whole subject sounds like some kind of insecurity to me.

Actually I was hoping it would be a low number. I don't want a lot of people driving the same car as me. Part of what pulled me to the Genesis was the fact that it isn't every 4th car I pass.....

The title of the thread is about sales. If you don't care, why are you posting? (not meant as a rip)....

 

[Sayantsi]

Tell that to people who bought a 1990 Infiniti Q45 instead of a Lexus LS and watched their resale value plummet vs the Lexus. Without fairly strong sales, dealers will be less inclined to push the Genesis, it will receive less corporate support, it won't get the respect or attention it deserves, sales will fall further, and eventually the Genesis will go the way of the Q45.

I'm not saying that will happen to the Genesis - it is way to early to tell. I'm just saying that people who love the Genesis have reason to be concerned over whether or not it is a sales success.

So the only reason to get a car is because of its resale value? What horrible logic! Good cars come and go, don't expect the Genesis to last forever.

 

[STREETS]

If I cared about how many Genesis' were out on the road, I would have bought a Camry, Accord, C or E Class or another 5 Series. What makes it great is that I do not see many Genesis' out on the road and still get a kick when people look at the car and stare or ask what is it I am driving.

 

[Mark_888]

Tell that to people who bought a 1990 Infiniti Q45 instead of a Lexus LS and watched their resale value plummet vs the Lexus. Without fairly strong sales, dealers will be less inclined to push the Genesis, it will receive less corporate support, it won't get the respect or attention it deserves, sales will fall further, and eventually the Genesis will go the way of the Q45.

I'm not saying that will happen to the Genesis - it is way to early to tell. I'm just saying that people who love the Genesis have reason to be concerned over whether or not it is a sales success.

Aside from the previous comments as to whether I should care or not (since I am not associated with Hyundai or its dealers), the comparison between the Q45 and Genesis is not valid IMO.

The Q45 tried to go head-to-head with the Lexus LS in terms of price, size, features, etc, and was found somewhat lacking by the public. There is no other car that I know of that is priced close to the Genesis that is comparable in size, features, etc.

The Genesis was originally built for the Korean market and US Genesis sales are just gravy and are not a big concern to Hyundai in terms of its overall financial well-being. That is one reason they are not quite ready to make Genesis a separate brand yet, with its own set of dealers.

 

[Disaster]

Aside from the previous comments as to whether I should care or not (since I am not associated with Hyundai or its dealers), the comparison between the Q45 and Genesis is not valid IMO.

The Q45 tried to go head-to-head with the Lexus LS in terms of price, size, features, etc, and was found somewhat lacking by the public. There is no other car that I know of that is priced close to the Genesis that is comparable in size, features, etc.

The Genesis was originally built for the Korean market and US Genesis sales are just gravy and are not a big concern to Hyundai in terms of its overall financial well-being. That is one reason they are not quite ready to make Genesis a separate brand yet, with its own set of dealers.

I agree wholeheartedly. It comes down to cost of ownership too. I always thought it was funny when you'd hear someone comment about how well a Mercedes held its resale value. They'd quote some figure like 60% after two years. Only problem is that 40% chunk you lost was REAL BIG because the Mercedes cost so much to begin with.

I just read a cost of ownership comparison between a Sonata and a Toyota Camry. They were about the same because, while the Camry depreciated less, the Sonata cost less.

As Hyundai's reputation for quality and longevity improve, so do it's resale values. The new Sonata looks to be a huge winner for Hyundai and will further improve it's reputation.

My feeling is in the worst case the Genesis will not depreciate enough to make up for the lower buying price. In the best case it will hold turn out to be a sought after car on the used market, much like the first Lexus LS's were.

 

[Hghwy52]

Aside from the previous comments as to whether I should care or not (since I am not associated with Hyundai or its dealers), the comparison between the Q45 and Genesis is not valid IMO.

The Q45 tried to go head-to-head with the Lexus LS in terms of price, size, features, etc, and was found somewhat lacking by the public. There is no other car that I know of that is priced close to the Genesis that is comparable in size, features, etc.

The Genesis was originally built for the Korean market and US Genesis sales are just gravy and are not a big concern to Hyundai in terms of its overall financial well-being. That is one reason they are not quite ready to make Genesis a separate brand yet, with its own set of dealers.

The point with the Q45 was that it was more powerful, sportier, had favorable reviews, yet failed where the somewhat more refined Lexus succeeded. Because of the initial price, I think the Genesis will prove to be a good buy regardless of its depreciation, but depreciation is certainly a measure of the perceived value of a car. The Q45 is simply a case of a good car that didn't take off and eventually failed.

Also, I'm not convinced that Genesis sales are providing much gravy, if any at all, for Hyundai given its price point, costs to launch etc. If the new Sonata is well received, the Genesis may no longer be needed to raise brand awareness. If Hyundai looses money on each car sold, it will eventually pull the plug. I doubt that would happen for years though, even in the worst case scenario, because of the negative publicity it would create.

I just did an inventory search on cars.com for Genesis within 75 miles of Hartford, CT which includes parts of MA, NY an RI. Of 45 cars listed, 6 were 2010's (all 3.8L) and 39 were 2009's. I know Genesis is doing better in other parts of the country, but CT, I think, is a market where Hyundai expected the Genesis to thrive. I know I did.

 

[wallymn]

You got to love dealers.

cars.com lists 450 2009 4.6 Genesis. (nationally)...

Price ranges from 47k (are you kidding?) to 32,500 (w/tech).....

 

[Mark_888]

Also, I'm not convinced that Genesis sales are providing much gravy, if any at all, for Hyundai given its price point, costs to launch etc. If the new Sonata is well received, the Genesis may no longer be needed to raise brand awareness. If Hyundai looses money on each car sold, it will eventually pull the plug. I doubt that would happen for years though, even in the worst case scenario, because of the negative publicity it would create.

I just did an inventory search on cars.com for Genesis within 75 miles of Hartford, CT which includes parts of MA, NY an RI. Of 45 cars listed, 6 were 2010's (all 3.8L) and 39 were 2009's. I know Genesis is doing better in other parts of the country, but CT, I think, is a market where Hyundai expected the Genesis to thrive. I know I did.

The point about the gravy is that the Genesis was developed for the Korean Market (where Hyundai/Kia completely dominate the market) so there was not much extra cost in making the North American versions. A big part of any new car is R&D and tooling. Therefore, even if North American Genesis sales were to cease at some date in the future (not likely IMO), the Genesis will not be a failure.

When Hyundai purchases six Super Bowl commercials at an average of $2.6 million for each 30 second spot (two during the game and four during pre-game in 2010) you can see that they are willing to make long term investments in the brand. The purchased a similar number of commercials during the 2009 Super Bowl. Bringing the Genesis to North America is part of improving the brand image, and they are not worried about making boat loads of money off the Genesis in North American anytime soon. They may already loosing money for each Genesis sold in North America, but they now selling vehicles at annual rate of over 3 million units worldwide each year, so the the number of Genesis units sold in North America would not amount to much even if they tripled sales.

The problem with the Sonata (in a class where sales are many, many times greater than the class occupied by the Genesis) is that only a minority of potential Camry/Accord buyers even look at the Sonata. Raising brand awareness is an important aspect of the Genesis (and Equus). Sales of previous Sonatas were not primarily hampered by its looks or features, but by a relatively poor perception of Hyundai as a quality automaker. A flashy new Sonata design does not completely solve that perception problem, and selling the Genesis in North America is part of their overall brand strategy, even if they don't make any money on it right away.

Regarding your inventory search, how can you tell the number of 2010's sold by the number in inventory? It could be that dealers have a hard time keeping 2010's in stock. But I would not expect a RWD car to sell well in that region anyway. I certainly would not purchase one if I lived where it snowed a lot--there are far too many excellent FWD cars available, and I only want to own one car, and I don't want to bother with snow tires.

 

[bjjones]

The point with the Q45 was that it was more powerful, sportier, had favorable reviews, yet failed where the somewhat more refined Lexus succeeded. Because of the initial price, I think the Genesis will prove to be a good buy regardless of its depreciation, but depreciation is certainly a measure of the perceived value of a car. The Q45 is simply a case of a good car that didn't take off and eventually failed.

Also, I'm not convinced that Genesis sales are providing much gravy, if any at all, for Hyundai given its price point, costs to launch etc. If the new Sonata is well received, the Genesis may no longer be needed to raise brand awareness. If Hyundai looses money on each car sold, it will eventually pull the plug. I doubt that would happen for years though, even in the worst case scenario, because of the negative publicity it would create.

I just did an inventory search on cars.com for Genesis within 75 miles of Hartford, CT which includes parts of MA, NY an RI. Of 45 cars listed, 6 were 2010's (all 3.8L) and 39 were 2009's. I know Genesis is doing better in other parts of the country, but CT, I think, is a market where Hyundai expected the Genesis to thrive. I know I did.

The first generation Infiniti Q45 (along with the subsequent Q series models) were not competitive against the Lexus LS series and thus eventually doomed to extinction due to the lack of a well-integrated; unified marketing campaign by Nissan/Infiniti and a flawed strategy of planning with no real cohesiveness in the design elements of the car throughout the Q45's life cycle.

When it comes to marketing luxury automobiles, Hyundai could certainly take a page or two from Toyota. Lexus shined in it's inception compared to the other Japanese luxury brands because Lexus marketed and created automobiles that conveyed a distinct message about the positive virtues of the product without perplexing or bewildering the consumer.