BTR No Longer Tuning?

[carguy75]

RENNTECH STAGE 3 PACKAGE FOR A 2007 MERCEDES CLS63 AMG IS $21,700 FOR 84HP, IN PERSPECTIVE TO OUR $1000 ECU TUNE . LOL

. Damn!

That is a lot of money for only 84hp, respectable gain but way too costly for thin pockets.

 

[MG8]

. Damn!

That is a lot of money for only 84hp, respectable gain but way too costly for thin pockets.

IMO 84hp IS NOTHING for $21,700 lol

 

[DaNooch]

IMO 84hp IS NOTHING for $21,700 lol

Dude idk what package you are looking at? But that's got to be a stage package.. Renntech tunes run about $3k and for around 70/80 hp, it's well worth the money..

 

[carguy75]

Well I think you don't understand the true fundamentals of how an engine makes power? First off you can't just slap a turbo car on the dyno and "change parameters" so the car will handle more boost? Lol Plus the only reason what you are talking about is even possible is because the manufacturer has it de-tuned..

See all cars are tuned by the factory to give the best performance they can while maintaining drive ability, comfort, mpg, but MAINLY, things like passing emissions, maintaining the life of the smog system, and keeping reliability up above all else. Doesn't matter what type of engine the car has, from the factory they are very conservative..The smallest power gain you'd see on any stock vehicle is 15/20 to the ground.. , ,

The only way an engine makes power is by burning fuel and air.. you wanna go faster? You burn more of that stuff or you take things off to make the power/weight greater..

You like many others greatly overestimate the power you gain from putting on a CAI and exhaust.. Take what manufacturers say and throw it out the window.. at most a intake will net you 2-5% power, exhausts on most cars are simply a sound change.. unless their are tons of cats and resonators or restrictions the most you'll gain is
2-3%. So say generously you put an intake and catback on a 3.8 gen you'll gain 16-17 hp..estimated.. That's pretty much the same to me?

You're only other mod deals with tweaking the drive by wire response. The car isn't faster? You just have to move the peddle waaaay less to get full throttle conditions. Now a real tune is going to set that response as well, it's going to change all the tq management. Shift points, rpms, harder faster shifting, they are going to lean your A/F out to make peak power while still being safe (which will melt and destroy cats) and they are going to keep throwing timing at it till it detonated.. But as I mentioned above via your comment on turbo cars, you can only increase the fuel so much before you run out of injector or pump etc..

Yes parasitic drag from unsprung weight is a big performance drop.. and reducing weight is the fastest and cheapest (via stripping stuff out) way to increase power. But good lightweight rims and summer tires are not at all cheap to say the least?? For an E-bay set of cast aluminum crap you're talking $1k before tires and they MIGHT be lighter than factory alloys. If you are talking about rims that are going to be 12-15 lbs lighter then bump that to $2500/3000 for the rims alone..

If the scenario happened that you mentioned above yes the tuned car would bear the intake, exhaust, throttle chip setup. BUT, if that bolt on car had the rims and tire setup it would prob win then.

Again it's about the same.. but if you tune the bolt on car it's a no brainer.

You make good points in your statement, especially about reducing unsprung weight. However, our engine has variable valve timing and valve lift ability that the stock ECU can adjust to intake changes and exhaust changes. Therefore, the bolt-on mods the member was recommending(intake,exhaust,etc.) will net some decent gains to our engine. However, the changes will not be as aggressive as with aftermarket performance tune.

Stock turbo engines are usually running less boost for better reliability, however the stock ECU is usually easy to trick by tuners to increase the maximum allowed boost for more than stock power at the risk of damaging the engine.

N/A engine like ours are usually running fairly close to max power in stock form with a little wiggle room for more gains by adding extra airflow and advancing the timing, but usually only gain about 30hp max even tuned with bolt-on mods. Results varies based on the engine design and ECU adaptability, so you can not base the gains/loses on one type of engine on another type of engine since the results will vary.

 

[MG8]

Dude idk what package you are looking at? But that's got to be a stage package.. Renntech tunes run about $3k and for around 70/80 hp, it's well worth the money..

View attachment 19867

yeah thats stage 3 and for a N/A 2007+ cls63. i thought we comparing all motor? the one you show thats turbo. Gains: +27HP & +20TQ. $1640 thats same gains for our $1000 tune

 

[carguy75]

Dude idk what package you are looking at? But that's got to be a stage package.. Renntech tunes run about $3k and for around 70/80 hp, it's well worth the money..

View attachment 19867

That seem more like an actual price for a Mercedes ECU tune. $3000 as opposed to $21000.

 

[carguy75]

yeah thats stage 3 and for a N/A 2007+ cls63. i thought we comparing all motor? the one you show thats turbo. Gains: +27HP & +20TQ. $1640 thats same gains for our $1000 tune

The stage 3 Renntech tune include mechanical parts as well such as limited slip axle, carbon fiber air box, long tube header, etc. Hence the insane price tag.

 

[MG8]

That seem more like a price for a Mercedes ECU tune. $3000 as opposed to $21000.

i thought people complaining,
we talking about $1000 aint worth 30hp for our genesis But $1640 for 27hp is FOR A BENZ SMH DOESNT MAKE SENSE ...

 

[MG8]

The stage 3 Renntech tune include mechanical parts as well such as limited slip axle, carbon fiber air box, long tube header, etc. Hence the insane price tag.

idc what it comes with still wouldnt pay $21k. lol i can live with $1000 good for 30hp

 

[MG8]

Dude idk what package you are looking at? But that's got to be a stage package.. Renntech tunes run about $3k and for around 70/80 hp, it's well worth the monView attachment 19867

this is still a rip for turbo car and that price , look at the JB4 $479.00
JB4
Power gains of up to 100hp and 100tq to the wheels on a stock vehicle. and this is to the wheels
id take 100whp for $479 OVER 66whp for $3000

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[carguy75]

idc what it comes with still wouldnt pay $21k. lol i can live with $1000 good for 30hp

But the stage 3 comes with an carbon fiber air box.

 

[carguy75]

this is still a rip for turbo car and that price , look at the JB4 $479.00
JB4
Power gains of up to 100hp and 100tq to the wheels on a stock vehicle. and this is to the wheels
id take 100whp for $479 OVER 66whp for $3000

Again, this is why Hyundai engines are the best bang for the buck. Even the tunes are more cost effective than the other luxury makes turbo engine tunes.

 

[MoonDoggy-X]

this is still a rip for turbo car and that price , look at the JB4 $479.00
JB4
Power gains of up to 100hp and 100tq to the wheels on a stock vehicle. and this is to the wheels
id take 100whp for $479 OVER 66whp for $3000

Keep in mind, those are peak numbers. The JB4 is very sophisticated for a piggyback, and great for the price. However, given the choice, I'd pay 4 times that for a good tune.

I was thinking about getting a Stinger GT before getting the Genesis. Seemed like a great way to get a low 12s car. I saw the Dyno carts for the stinger + piggyback, and decided not to go that route. Look at their torque curve compared to a turbo Audi or BMW, ad you how those cars(similar sized) are faster with less power.

 

[MG8]

But the stage 3 comes with an carbon fiber air box.

cool maybe it will guarantee a win or two at A car show.

 

[carguy75]

Keep in mind, those are peak numbers. The JB4 is very sophisticated for a piggyback, and great for the price. However, given the choice, I'd pay 4 times that for a good tune.

I was thinking about getting a Stinger GT before getting the Genesis. Seemed like a great way to get a low 12s car. I saw the Dyno carts for the stinger + piggyback, and decided not to go that route. Look at their torque curve compared to a turbo Audi or BMW, ad you how those cars(similar sized) are faster with less power.

Well ,some of the German cars are under-rated from the factory(or inaccurate kw-to-hp conversion) and are making nearly the published peak numbers at the wheels when dyno'ed. Hence why a 440 hp BMW moves much faster than an a similar rated American or Asian model. However, gearing also is factor.

One example of BMW horsepower number fudging. The new m5 is rated at 600 hp but makes 625 at the wheels.
New BMW M5 Produces 625 Horsepower Stock At The Wheels

 

[MG8]

Well ,some of the German cars are under-rated from the factory(or inaccurate kw-to-hp conversion) and are making nearly the published peak numbers at the wheels when dyno'ed. Hence why a 440 hp BMW moves much faster than an a similar rated American or Asian model. However, gearing also is factor.

One example of BMW horsepower number fudging. The new m5 is rated at 600 hp but makes 625 at the wheels.
New BMW M5 Produces 625 Horsepower Stock At The Wheels

thats crazy.

 

[DaNooch]

The stage 3 Renntech tune include mechanical parts as well such as limited slip axle, carbon fiber air box, long tube header, etc. Hence the insane price tag.

Yea that's not a "tune" that's a full build, with extensive parts as described, and of course insane labor rates.
I'm not sure if it was this thread or not but just FYI I am N automotive engineer who designed fuel injectors for Siemens, then continental, then did fuel systems for Schrader, then drivetrain with GKN.. From there I moved into racing and worked for a Race suspension company called JRI, then I got picked up by Stewart Haas racing and was on Kevin Harvicks team, and now I'm on the Haas F1 team..

Trust in what I'm telling you.. Boosted vehicles even from the factory can take more boost.. Tuners don't have to change a thing, you can simply change the waste gate spring and bam more boost.. you might be lean as crap or the 02's will overload and go into open loop dumping as much fuel as they can.. Most factory fuel systems can support full bolt on's

All the tuner is doing is messing with your A/F ratio, timing, torque management, sometimes trans settings if possible.. and guys variable valve timing and lift, has been around (in production) since 89. They do not mess with any of the operation of that. They will only adjust when it is activated.. NA or boosted it makes no difference?

What determines how much you'll gain from a tune is how modified is your power train? And how "safe" the programming is from the auto maker..

And I'm sorry but there is not a product on God's green earth that will give you 100hp for $500? Lol. Now can you gain over 100hp from a tune on an extremely heavily modified engine? Sure.. but by itself. No...

Guys a GM LS V8 only gains about 100hp to the ground from putting on a damn supercharger!! And that's $7k all day..

So take for example this "N/A" C63amg 2009-2014 getting 70hp for $1700 and its forever rewritable and can be taken out simply by unplugging it is a freaking steal...

I also lived in South Korea for 2 years.. the aftermarket support for the "I30" (what our car is called there) is insane..and cheap.. we are just getting @ss raped here In the states by the few importers, and the damn shipping..

Cheers mates..

 

[carguy75]

Yea that's not a "tune" that's a full build, with extensive parts as described, and of course insane labor rates.
I'm not sure if it was this thread or not but just FYI I am N automotive engineer who designed fuel injectors for Siemens, then continental, then did fuel systems for Schrader, then drivetrain with GKN.. From there I moved into racing and worked for a Race suspension company called JRI, then I got picked up by Stewart Haas racing and was on Kevin Harvicks team, and now I'm on the Haas F1 team..

Trust in what I'm telling you.. Boosted vehicles even from the factory can take more boost.. Tuners don't have to change a thing, you can simply change the waste gate spring and bam more boost.. you might be lean as crap or the 02's will overload and go into open loop dumping as much fuel as they can.. Most factory fuel systems can support full bolt on's

All the tuner is doing is messing with your A/F ratio, timing, torque management, sometimes trans settings if possible.. and guys variable valve timing and lift, has been around (in production) since 89. They do not mess with any of the operation of that. They will only adjust when it is activated.. NA or boosted it makes no difference?

What determines how much you'll gain from a tune is how modified is your power train? And how "safe" the programming is from the auto maker..

And I'm sorry but there is not a product on God's green earth that will give you 100hp for $500? Lol. Now can you gain over 100hp from a tune on an extremely heavily modified engine? Sure.. but by itself. No...

Guys a GM LS V8 only gains about 100hp to the ground from putting on a damn supercharger!! And that's $7k all day..

So take for example this "N/A" C63amg 2009-2014 getting 70hp for $1700 and its forever rewritable and can be taken out simply by unplugging it is a freaking steal...

I also lived in South Korea for 2 years.. the aftermarket support for the "I30" (what our car is called there) is insane..and cheap.. we are just getting @ss raped here In the states by the few importers, and the damn shipping..

Cheers mates..
View attachment 19870

The Genesis/G80 is not the I30 in Korea. The Genesis 5.0 has minimum tuner support even in Korea.

The I30
i30 Highlights

 

[MG8]

Yea that's not a "tune" that's a full build, with extensive parts as described, and of course insane labor rates.
I'm not sure if it was this thread or not but just FYI I am N automotive engineer who designed fuel injectors for Siemens, then continental, then did fuel systems for Schrader, then drivetrain with GKN.. From there I moved into racing and worked for a Race suspension company called JRI, then I got picked up by Stewart Haas racing and was on Kevin Harvicks team, and now I'm on the Haas F1 team..

Trust in what I'm telling you.. Boosted vehicles even from the factory can take more boost.. Tuners don't have to change a thing, you can simply change the waste gate spring and bam more boost.. you might be lean as crap or the 02's will overload and go into open loop dumping as much fuel as they can.. Most factory fuel systems can support full bolt on's

All the tuner is doing is messing with your A/F ratio, timing, torque management, sometimes trans settings if possible.. and guys variable valve timing and lift, has been around (in production) since 89. They do not mess with any of the operation of that. They will only adjust when it is activated.. NA or boosted it makes no difference?

What determines how much you'll gain from a tune is how modified is your power train? And how "safe" the programming is from the auto maker..

And I'm sorry but there is not a product on God's green earth that will give you 100hp for $500? Lol. Now can you gain over 100hp from a tune on an extremely heavily modified engine? Sure.. but by itself. No...

Guys a GM LS V8 only gains about 100hp to the ground from putting on a damn supercharger!! And that's $7k all day..

So take for example this "N/A" C63amg 2009-2014 getting 70hp for $1700 and its forever rewritable and can be taken out simply by unplugging it is a freaking steal...

I also lived in South Korea for 2 years.. the aftermarket support for the "I30" (what our car is called there) is insane..and cheap.. we are just getting @ss raped here In the states by the few importers, and the damn shipping..

Cheers mates..
View attachment 19870

 

[66nexus]

I thought Korea didn't get the V8's?