Finally, hyundai is pushing the 3.3L turbo. share your comments!

[Aquineas]

All this talk about turbos especially the F150 that has been mentioned a few times in the thread. I happen to own one with the 3.5 eco boost and so does a good friend of mine and another good friend has the 5.0. The 5.0 naturally aspirated V8 gets better milage. My friends 1 year old eco boost has already been in the shop several times with the turbo replaced. Mine has been pretty much OK except there is a hesitation intermittently which points towards another bad turbo. Do a search, the eco boost and all of Fords eco boost do little in the way of economy and have in fact been really problematic. As mentioned the Turbo is just a way of bypassing the restrictives laws coming into effect. This article should open some eyes. After you understand what is going on you will most likely opt for naturally aspirated or you can continue to live with your head in the sand and go turbo. http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/mpg-or-performance-its-trade-turbos

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I never trailer long distances wit the F150 eco boost however I just came back from a snowmobile trip. Towed a single place all aluminum, enclosed, aerodynamic snowmobile trailer for about 1400km. The trailer weighs about 900 lbs so relatively light and the snowmobile about 800. Conditions were perfect, no winds, bright and sunny however quite cold. Roads are basically highway all the way with no hills to speak of in fact flat and boring. Got a miserable 25L/100km going and coming back 23.7L/100km. That is a measly 9.5mpg. So where is the 22mpg they advertise on TV while towing your boat? Lots of BS going on here.

Wow, if true (which I have no reason to doubt), I gotta say, that's a pretty strong endorsement for the V8. I had heard about the vanishing MPG on the Ecoboost engines, but my thoughts were that was due to people driving them hard vs. driving them gingerly for an EPA test.

 

[Aquineas]

This has turned into a good thread with some good debate and alternative points of view. To be clear, I absolutely love the V8 in my 5.0 Genesis. I feel as though I got lucky in a sense because I feel like the non R-Spec 5.0 is the best of both worlds with the 1st generation Genesis, due to too firm a ride with the R-Spec, and those vile wheels. It's also a relatively rare car, as I *believe* you can only get the 5.0 non R-Spec in 2012. I say all that to say, there may indeed come a time when you can't get wonderful Tau V8 anymore, and whenever that happens it will be a sad day for all of us.

Now I hear what you're saying about choice and the Government making choices for us. But I also remember as a kid the gas lines and "No Gas" signs and only being able to fill up on certain days based on your last name. That sucked too.

 

[jimb100]

^^ ++++++++++1

Here we go... Good actual comparison of real world. And this is and will not be a Ford only problem. Ford has attempted to get ahead of the forced .gov curve. And Ford is taking the arrows like we see above. He is dead on.

I suggest we let DC burn to the ground and put on trial for high crimes, and war crimes, a few million .gov employees and office holder tyrants. they are the source of this misery. And the much greater misery to come later.

While agreeing that engine development has been dictated, to some extent. A lot of the blame falls on the car companies for taking the easy way out.

The car companies and the oil companies worked hand in hand to insure we all spent as much buying gas as they could get out of us. Efficiency was never a concern, just like there was never a concern for safety.

Now you can (and people did) say "safety doesn't sell" but what sells is what gets advertised and what gets advertised is what makes the most money.

A lot of governments heavy handed approach reflects a response to irresponsible behavior by the car and oil companies.

Also, tarring all government employees, as you have, focuses too much on government and not enough on the real bad actors.

Look at the policies of Wall Street and the big banks. Comcast, Verizon. I used to belong to the NRA until they were taken over by the gun and ammo industry that wants to put a concealed weapon in everyone's hands.

Look at Hollywood and the TV industry. Every night its one serial killer after another and then, with the next breath, they complain that too many people have guns. Who does more to encourage people to buy guns, the NRA or Hollywood.

There's a lot of people I can see taking to the woodshed ahead of government employees.

 

[Monolith2001]

All this talk about turbos especially the F150 that has been mentioned a few times in the thread. I happen to own one with the 3.5 eco boost and so does a good friend of mine and another good friend has the 5.0. The 5.0 naturally aspirated V8 gets better milage. My friends 1 year old eco boost has already been in the shop several times with the turbo replaced. Mine has been pretty much OK except there is a hesitation intermittently which points towards another bad turbo. Do a search, the eco boost and all of Fords eco boost do little in the way of economy and have in fact been really problematic. As mentioned the Turbo is just a way of bypassing the restrictives laws coming into effect. This article should open some eyes. After you understand what is going on you will most likely opt for naturally aspirated or you can continue to live with your head in the sand and go turbo. http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/mpg-or-performance-its-trade-turbos

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I never trailer long distances wit the F150 eco boost however I just came back from a snowmobile trip. Towed a single place all aluminum, enclosed, aerodynamic snowmobile trailer for about 1400km. The trailer weighs about 900 lbs so relatively light and the snowmobile about 800. Conditions were perfect, no winds, bright and sunny however quite cold. Roads are basically highway all the way with no hills to speak of in fact flat and boring. Got a miserable 25L/100km going and coming back 23.7L/100km. That is a measly 9.5mpg. So where is the 22mpg they advertise on TV while towing your boat? Lots of BS going on here.

I cannot speak to the reliability of any Ecoboost but my last car was a Sonata 2.0T Limited and I traded it in with 95K miles on it (needed a bigger back seat as my boys hit puberty and are at or closing in on 6ft.). I never had a day's trouble out of the turbo and I drove it like I like to. Conversely I had all kinds of issues with my old Expedition and put close to $4,000 into that 4.6 before I just got rid of it after the last repair. My point is that I would not condemn turbocharging as a whole for anecdotal Ford reliability with the EcoBoost.

Fuel economy is a different story. A smaller turbo motor will not be any more fuel efficient than a big motor under load. It takes x energy to move y mass in any given situation and throwing in a turbo or supercharger doesn't change that math. Where a turbo gets it's advantages in economy is that a smaller motor has lower fuel requirements at idle and normal steady cruise speeds. If you have two vehicles that are identical except that one has a turbo V6 that made similar power as another with big V8 and drove them down the road at the same speed (say 45mph), the V6 would likely be more fuel efficient. If you were to run those same cars accelerating aggressively in traffic or towing, then the turbo motor is going to start producing boost, forcing more air into the motor and the required increase in fuel. It will likely burn more gas than the V8 but it will also be making more power and torque than the V8 due to the stronger curve. If you matched them to accelerate at exactly the same speed with the same load, you'd get slightly better gas mileage just due to less weight as it would take x energy to move x mass.

The take away is that a properly designed turbocharged system under similar conditions and habits will deliver similar or better fuel economy but the aggressive torque delivery can result in situations where the turbo engine is making more power and torque. When I towed my bike or jet ski with the Expedition's old 4.6, I knew it as was there when I pulled away and I did not push it unless I had to. With our Armada, it just pulls. Both of those SUVs got about the same gas mileage in everyday driving but my Armada's mileage was worse when towing because I drove it like I normally do (using more power and torque) whereas I was gentler on the 4.6 (afraid I was going to break it).

 

[YEH]

Don't see what the issue is as long as Hyundai gives the buyer options (and if they are going to be serious about the luxury segment, that's what they need to do).

Ideally, Hyundai will offer the 3.8 NA, 3.3T, 5.0 NA and 5.0T (for the performance line) on the Genesis (tho, maybe we'll see Hyundai substitute the 3.8 with a 4-banger turbo, but that would mean Hyundai developing a new turbo-4 for its lux line since I can't see them using the same T4 that is used in the Sonata, so probably unlikely).

What I would like to see Hyundai add in addition is an e-AWD system to the Genesis (like what Kia has shown on the Trail'ster concept).

 

[zielritter]

Folks. I have seen this before. Few decades ago, the whacko Carter administration forced the car companies to use turbos in order to get any performance back then. How? They RIGGED the EPA tests so that mileage and pollution emitted was rigged in the test where a turbo in a certain test range produced better results. On the street it was a mess. Horrible gas mileage, expensive to produce, less reliable..

Reagan administration gutted the Carter lies and twists in the EPA. What happened? Total innovation with fuel injection, rebirth of a economical American muscle V8, real men cars. Not sputtering rice burners. Europe and Asia copied Americans and did the same thing.

By late 80s Mercedes licensed the then upcoming Ford modular overhead cam 4, 6, and V8 technology (Ford had a commercial promoting this in early 90s). We had the ZR1, all kinds of advancements..

This led to two more decades of Uber reliable engines with ever growing POWER!

Now we have feminine pinky finger Obama Gang (and Bush bots prior) at fracking this up again. They rig the rules of EPA testing to fake Better mileage with turbos. They live sputtering rice burning SMALL engines. They have a almost sexual fetish to force this in us. It is tyranny.

If you want small turbos. Good. Go for it. If you want to rig the EPA testing to create a forced market of sputtering motors, I say, you will be hung from tress one day.

Look, these turbos do NOT get better real world mileage, or emissions in the same power set up as a larger non turbo engine like a V8. Just the way it is.

Many millions of us are figuring out history is repeating itself again. And costing us and other massive money and crappy cars coming up. Because of .gov busy body terrorist tyrants.

Wake up folks. Choice is good.. Forced crap is tyranny and should be stopped.

Put the V8 in the coupe. Put a fraction of the expensive money being spent on the turbos, to improving the V8. Better mileage, more power, more reliable. Case closed.

Oh boy, not this shit again. You're like a broken record. A broken, Fox News, fear-mongering record. Even if you have good points about anything, it's clouded in your arrogant demeaning rhetoric.

If it's "forced crap" and "tyranny" then why are all of the major manufacturers moving in one direction? You know there's more than one market right? The US doesn't control the global manufacturing bent of every producer of automobiles. That's an awfully ethnocentric outlook if you ask me.

What say you about the trend towards electric motors that we're seeing in higher end vehicles like the BMW i8? More pinko, communist brainwashing of my generation I'm sure. How does it feel to be paranoid of everyone younger than 60?

 

[zielritter]

I believe we have the tin foil hat winner of the month with that post. Also the prize for most people and groups insulted within a single post.

When this guy pops up it's like someone copied and pasted a bunch of Glenn Beck quotes in a row and changed the nouns to fit his/her agenda. If you disagree with him he uses more broad brush strokes to paint you as an ignorant pawn played by the evil liberal scheme to rid the world of V8's.

I refuse to believe with the transparency and access to information in today's digital age that there's a massive conspiracy to push turbo engines that are no more efficient than the Coyote 5 liter.

It's just preposterous to believe that every single manufacturer has adopted the same approach (smaller engines, more FI and electric) just to appease a bunch of American politicians. What's the motivation here?

 

[svensk]

I owned a sonata 2.0T for 3 years and now I'm back into a proper v8 powered car. I'm not looking back... The sonata was a great car, but I didn't have much satisfaction using the throttle and hearing the angry bee hive come to life.
Engine complexity and reliability is a big factor with the move to smaller displacement turbo engines. Hyundai is having some issues with reliability with the turbo gdi engines.

 

[DRS]

While agreeing that engine development has been dictated, to some extent. A lot of the blame falls on the car companies for taking the easy way out.



The car companies and the oil companies worked hand in hand to insure we all spent as much buying gas as they could get out of us. Efficiency was never a concern, just like there was never a concern for safety.



Now you can (and people did) say "safety doesn't sell" but what sells is what gets advertised and what gets advertised is what makes the most money.



A lot of governments heavy handed approach reflects a response to irresponsible behavior by the car and oil companies.



Also, tarring all government employees, as you have, focuses too much on government and not enough on the real bad actors.



Look at the policies of Wall Street and the big banks. Comcast, Verizon. I used to belong to the NRA until they were taken over by the gun and ammo industry that wants to put a concealed weapon in everyone's hands.



Look at Hollywood and the TV industry. Every night its one serial killer after another and then, with the next breath, they complain that too many people have guns. Who does more to encourage people to buy guns, the NRA or Hollywood.



There's a lot of people I can see taking to the woodshed ahead of government employees.

Agree about the size of the woodshed and who will be in it before the gallows. I am pointing out one area.. The area that is forcing us to deal with only faux audio sounding sputtering engines.

 

[DRS]

This has turned into a good thread with some good debate and alternative points of view. To be clear, I absolutely love the V8 in my 5.0 Genesis. I feel as though I got lucky in a sense because I feel like the non R-Spec 5.0 is the best of both worlds with the 1st generation Genesis, due to too firm a ride with the R-Spec, and those vile wheels. It's also a relatively rare car, as I *believe* you can only get the 5.0 non R-Spec in 2012. I say all that to say, there may indeed come a time when you can't get wonderful Tau V8 anymore, and whenever that happens it will be a sad day for all of us.

Now I hear what you're saying about choice and the Government making choices for us. But I also remember as a kid the gas lines and "No Gas" signs and only being able to fill up on certain days based on your last name. That sucked too.

+1. Except for the gas lines bit. Neither your nor my 5.0 Non R-Spec (yes, rare and 2012 only) will be causing gas lines. And those heavy foot sputtering faux audio sounding motors just might. Especially in trucks towing horse trailers at 7MPG verses much higher mpg with a NA V8.

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[jimb100]

Agree about the size of the woodshed and who will be in it before the gallows. I am pointing out one area.. The area that is forcing us to deal with only faux audio sounding sputtering engines.

The bigger problem, at least I think of it as a problem for enthusiasts, is self driving cars.

How long before private ownership is banned. How long before you tap an app on your phone, tell it where you need to go and how big a car you want and car shows up and takes you to your destination.

Believe me, private ownership will be a thing of the past as human driven cars will be a danger to the smooth operation of all the self driving cars and that will allow them to ban private owner ship except for off road use.

I don't think its more than 15 to 20 years before the transition is complete.

Face it, on the highway, the Genesis drives itself with smart cruise control. Apple is gearing up to supply autonomous vehicles, Google the same. They are not developing cars to compete with GM. The are looking to replace GM.

 

[DRS]

Oh boy, not this shit again. You're like a broken record. A broken, Fox News, fear-mongering record. Even if you have good points about anything, it's clouded in your arrogant demeaning rhetoric.

If it's "forced crap" and "tyranny" then why are all of the major manufacturers moving in one direction? You know there's more than one market right? The US doesn't control the global manufacturing bent of every producer of automobiles. That's an awfully ethnocentric outlook if you ask me.

What say you about the trend towards electric motors that we're seeing in higher end vehicles like the BMW i8? More pinko, communist brainwashing of my generation I'm sure. How does it feel to be paranoid of everyone younger than 60?

You are a micro aggression age racist. Yes, I said it. And bigoted biased age racist LibJob. Just listen to yourself.

Just to set your "record" straight. Faux News is not a staple that I rely on.. Certainly not Communist News Network or others either.

Tesla.. IMO a great car. Not because it is electric, but because I think it is a great car. Should have more range. But wow, the P85 with AWD is even more amazing. i8 Scion B look alike? Well, we will see. Hope it works out well for them. Not because it is liberal friendly, but because it ends up being a good car.

It is .gov tyranny that forces the hands of manufacturers. And in this case skews the use of turbos to meet the rigged mileage and "pollution" standards. Just the way it is. And this tyranny is on a global scale. And yes, the world does not all revolve around socialist oligarch Europe. They do follow us from time to time. And in this specific case, mileage and pollution standards and the fetish of audio sound system masked sputtering boosted motors.

Years ago they used to call the fad digital dash "Tokyo by night". Today the "sound" revolution for motors inside a car should be called "Bang and Olshft, this sounds bad"... BMWs with FAKE engine sounds inside the cabin. Geez, what crap. This quackery will fade too, just like some of the few obscene dash designs in the 80s.. Then what is left? Unmasked sounds of 3 cylinders, and maybe a 4 or 6 banging around in our ears. A Tesla does not need to have fake sounds running through its sound system. And never will.

I am harsh with the state of things because that is what is called for. And has some Onion web site like tongue and cheek.. Just to flush out real racist power hungry over others, you, who will vent like you did above.

I do appreciate your authentic words... It is refreshing to hear you show your biased towards others. Unlike others who try to mask theirs with fake sounds and words like the fake motor sounds coming from a new BMW sound system.

 

[DRS]

The bigger problem, at least I think of it as a problem for enthusiasts, is self driving cars.



How long before private ownership is banned. How long before you tap an app on your phone, tell it where you need to go and how big a car you want and car shows up and takes you to your destination.



Believe me, private ownership will be a thing of the past as human driven cars will be a danger to the smooth operation of all the self driving cars and that will allow them to ban private owner ship except for off road use.



I don't think its more than 15 to 20 years before the transition is complete.



Face it, on the highway, the Genesis drives itself with smart cruise control. Apple is gearing up to supply autonomous vehicles, Google the same. They are not developing cars to compete with GM. The are looking to replace GM.

+1. GREAT points... I was not going to go there. But since you brought it up... serious, you, IMO are spot on.

On one hand I am not afraid of self driving cars, IF it is a choice and not some .gov plot to take Liberty filled driving away from us. And it is a plot...

 

[DRS]

When this guy pops up it's like someone copied and pasted a bunch of Glenn Beck quotes in a row and changed the nouns to fit his/her agenda. If you disagree with him he uses more broad brush strokes to paint you as an ignorant pawn played by the evil liberal scheme to rid the world of V8's.



I refuse to believe with the transparency and access to information in today's digital age that there's a massive conspiracy to push turbo engines that are no more efficient than the Coyote 5 liter.



It's just preposterous to believe that every single manufacturer has adopted the same approach (smaller engines, more FI and electric) just to appease a bunch of American politicians. What's the motivation here?

Motivation? To be allowed to sell cars. That is it. You are refuting the obvious? The increased mileage and pollution standards and how those tests are skewed? You really serious? It is a "plot". The busy body thugs in .gov have their agenda. Period. And they are doing well at it. And do not like light shown onto them and their schemes. In this case, my original concern was over the TAU V8. And still is.

Your micro aggression shown with drive by "oh he is a Glenn Beckster groupie, point your finger in shame" old saw statement only works today on the most ignorant. Sorry bucko... That branding does not stick here.

 

[DRS]

I owned a sonata 2.0T for 3 years and now I'm back into a proper v8 powered car. I'm not looking back... The sonata was a great car, but I didn't have much satisfaction using the throttle and hearing the angry bee hive come to life.

Engine complexity and reliability is a big factor with the move to smaller displacement turbo engines. Hyundai is having some issues with reliability with the turbo gdi engines.

^ +1 Preach it brother.... Choice, while we have it, is a wonderful thing.

And when all choice of liberty and capitalism of voluntary exchange of goods and services are over, choice for those terrorists who stole all freedom, wealth, and regulated our flesh body production of CO2 and methane, will be 1.) gallows, 2.) firing squad 3.) TBD.

 

[zielritter]

Motivation? To be allowed to sell cars. That is it. You are refuting the obvious? The increased mileage and pollution standards and how those tests are skewed? You really serious? It is a "plot". The busy body thugs in .gov have their agenda. Period. And they are doing well at it. And do not like light shown onto them and their schemes. In this case, my original concern was over the TAU V8. And still is.

Your micro aggression shown with drive by "oh he is a Glenn Beckster groupie, point your finger in shame" old saw statement only works today on the most ignorant. Sorry bucko... That branding does not stick here.

Motivation of the politicians, not the manufacturers. Why would all of the world's developed nations political elite silently band together to quash large displacement engines?

I really am curious why you think this way. Why is the political system on planet earth banded together to push turbos? To me it sounds like you're insane. The amount of crazy adjectives you have to explain your weird view makes you come off as an unhinged conspiracy theory wackjob.

And yes, your talking points sound like a Glenn Beck special on evil liberal government whether you realize it or not. I read your comments and I hear that propagandist from "V for Vendetta" in my head. It really is bizarre.

And for the love of god, what in the hell is an "age racist"? Age has nothing to do with race. I really don't think it's appropriate to be calling people racist when you clearly don't understand the definition of the word you're using.

As far as being "power hungry" over others. You couldn't be further from the truth in describing me. You really are a dick.

 

[Monolith2001]

I must say this has been one very entertaining thread. "Oh not this shit again" and "Age Racist" are the best laughs I've had this week. Anyway I will bow out and just read but it has been a great discussion to read and participate in. Vibrant discussion is a great thing.

 

[zielritter]

I must say this has been one very entertaining thread. "Oh not this shit again" and "Age Racist" are the best laughs I've had this week. Anyway I will bow out and just read but it has been a great discussion to read and participate in. Vibrant discussion is a great thing.

Apparently I am bigoted towards old people with a different complexion than myself. That's my best guess towards interpreting what he means

In reality, I know he means "ageism", but he goes for the subversive approach and uses inflammatory language like "racist" because that grabs your attention and associates me with a known social evil.

This is why I drew the parallel to Fox News. They are notorious for this type of melodramatic attention-grabbing headlining of their stories. It's hollow rhetoric that gets an emotional response but has little fact. Look at my post history - I don't get bent out of shape easily.

This guy, probably by intent, pushes my buttons with his hateful, fear-mongering classification of entire groups of people as being behind a global conspiracy to take away his choice to buy a V8.

There's no motivation and it is actually free market forces at work, ironically. Oil is an exhaustible resource. The market is responding, albeit slowly due to the political clout of oil companies who have been subsidized by our taxes, to a dwindling supply by innovating the ICE ahead of its eventual demise as the main propulsion system of personal transportation.

That's all that's going on here when you cook away all the conspiracy nonsense. Yes, it's the government's responsibility to try to correct transaction externalities through policy - hence the tax incentives for individuals and MPG requirements. Without those policies, the individuals in the transaction will fail to account for the wider impact (cost) of their choice to buy a gas guzzling Hummer (RIP ). Econ 101 rather than Conspiracies 101.

".gov" doesn't always get it right and there is corruption at all levels, but the end goal is A) Get us off dependency of carbon based fuels before price becomes economically detrimental. B) Reduce global emissions of carbon to slow down climate change and give us a fighting chance to resolve sustainability issues.

B will get me in trouble because we all know that India and China will continue industrialize with high carbon emissions regardless of what we do, but hey, we've got to be the shining example, right? I throw my money behind scientists who evaluate the facts, not some politician with an agenda.

 

[GenesisCaptain]

I must say this has been one very entertaining thread. "Oh not this shit again" and "Age Racist" are the best laughs I've had this week. Anyway I will bow out and just read but it has been a great discussion to read and participate in. Vibrant discussion is a great thing.

Ditto, I find this hugely entertaining. I have driven many cars that made the shift from NA to some form of forced induction. I don't care what it sounds like-- I posit that anyone who has actually driven and compared the evolved cars would never choose NA again. FI is freaking awesome. It crushes several of the primary objectives of a performance vehicle: smaller, lighter, and more powerful.

Now, for someone who really wants the awesome rumble of a 60s era muscle car, FI will fail. But, just know that the old school car will be slower in acceleration and poorer in handling compared to its FI alternative.

A couple folks mentioned the BMW M3 as an example down this path. The E46's S54 engine is one of my favorites on the planet. That car was other worldly. When BMW tried to keep up with the power race using cylinders and displacement, but it hurt performance. Fortunately, BMW dropped the extra cylinders and added FI. They went through the same lifecycle with the M5's engine. I like the FI M5 V8 better than the old NA V10.

And I should add that when I can afford a Tesla, I am buying one. My friends that have them rave about the driving experience. No one misses the engine sound. No one.

 

[ksoze]

A couple folks mentioned the BMW M3 as an example down this path. The E46's S54 engine is one of my favorites on the planet. That car was other worldly. When BMW tried to keep up with the power race using cylinders and displacement, but it hurt performance. Fortunately, BMW dropped the extra cylinders and added FA.

As sweet as the S56 straight six was, the following S65 V8 was a beast. Along with that car however, came weight and the E90 was thought by many to be heading away from the M cars heritage. The new S55 blown inline 6 beats the older cars numbers in virtually every category. Many don't care who made BMW move to a turbo - they just smile.