G70 Lease Comparisons and Discussion (USA)

[FornicatorSteve]

It seems very hard for these people to understand how their own pricing structures work.

The same dealer I've been working with tried to play the "oh you are right, you CAN combine our discounts with the circle A price, but you can't lease with circle A! That's where the confusion is."

I simply responded with a screenshot of: A. The circle website that says it can be used on a lease in the first paragraph of the homepage and B. A screenshot of an email asking if it could be used to lease to which the customer service responded to "Yes, if any dealers state they cannot do this, let us know the dealer's names so we may inform them".

I haven't heard much back from them until a few minutes ago where the salesperson said they think they could do the deal but the GM won't allow it.

Another dealer is stating that their discounts are "far better" than the A plan. Had to explain that A+B is a greater discount that A or B separately.

We'll see.

 

[Mcc]

It seems very hard for these people to understand how their own pricing structures work.

I think they understand perfectly. They just want to see how much you understand. If you don’t push back they win. I think it’s best to put ALL your cards on the table instead of going back and forth with them pretending they don’t know and waiting to see what you know. Make it clear if they don’t want to do the deal (and that is their perogative) that you will be going elsewhere to someone who will. But first ask to speak to the manager, you are negotiating with the wrong person.

 

[FornicatorSteve]

I think they understand perfectly. They just want to see how much you understand. If you don’t push back they win. I think it’s best to put ALL your cards on the table instead of going back and forth with them pretending they don’t know and waiting to see what you know. Make it clear if they don’t want to do the deal (and that is their perogative) that you will be going elsewhere to someone who will. But first ask to speak to the manager, you are negotiating with the wrong person.

Thanks for the advice, that is solid. I've tried different approaches as far as being upfront with circle, giving them the cert after getting them to agree on an amount off.

Every time, I've generally had something I needed to go do further research on (e.g. do the certs combine with dealer incentives, the lease deals, etc.)

I feel I'm gradually getting better prepared as far as knowledge of the program on the dealer side of things (what they can and can't do, how the discount is applied, etc.).

The only thing I am not certain on is the amount that the dealer gets reimbursed by HMA for the use of the Plan. From what I've gathered it should be a reimbursement between the invoice price and the circle price (so, they make 3% of MSRP + $250). In addition, HMA pays them the Holdback (or they retain the holdback), which is 3% off MSRP. In total, they should be making about $1525 on an RWD Sport, and then getting reimbursed about $1750 by HMA when someone uses the circle plan.

Is there anyone that may be able to confirm this?

 

[Kjs33233]

At a dealership now...first thing they said is you can’t use Circle A on a lease

Going to be a fun process with some education...

 

[nellie1289]

At a dealership now...first thing they said is you can’t use Circle A on a lease

Going to be a fun process with some education...

Find a new dealer

 

[FornicatorSteve]

Just got done talking to another dealer. I can probably make an imgur album and upload stuff there if anyone wants to read.

The gist:

Approached them, said I have a circle discount, can you set your dealer apart from others by offering dealer incentives/cash on top?

They replied that they could. They give me the numbers of $44,182 (this would be pretty solid at $2368 off the circle price).

I asked if that's what the dealer could discount from the Circle Price. They replied, "yes sir. Does that work for you?"

They then gave me a lease price of 509 with 2500 down. That didn't add up. It would be $516/mo with $0 drive off (or $441 with $2500 drive off). All these factoring in their dealer fee, taxes, etc.

They then said the 44,182 figure was after the Lease Cash and Loyalty, which are $3500. Their price was actually higher than the A plan as it seemed they'd be taking the conquest and an extra 200 for themselves. They said they couldn't take any off on the dealer side, in spite saying that they would 3 messages prior.

The A plan price by itself, factoring in their dealer fee, $400 for new plates (I'd transfer for $100), and 0.5% higher tax rate (it would be registered in a 6.5 county vs 7.0) would be $588.

They had the gall to ask if they could meet the $588 if I'd drive away today. I explained to them that no, that wouldn't be the case. That's the absolute base Circle A deal, and nothing special. I could get that at literally any dealer that does plan pricing.

The nerve of some of these people. Glad I'm not driving 2 hours to their dealership.

 

[Throat Yogurt]

Just got done talking to another dealer. I can probably make an imgur album and upload stuff there if anyone wants to read.

The gist:

Approached them, said I have a circle discount, can you set your dealer apart from others by offering dealer incentives/cash on top?

They replied that they could. They give me the numbers of $44,182 (this would be pretty solid at $2368 off the circle price).

I asked if that's what the dealer could discount from the Circle Price. They replied, "yes sir. Does that work for you?"

They then gave me a lease price of 509 with 2500 down. That didn't add up. It would be $516/mo with $0 drive off (or $441 with $2500 drive off). All these factoring in their dealer fee, taxes, etc.

They then said the 44,182 figure was after the Lease Cash and Loyalty, which are $3500. Their price was actually higher than the A plan as it seemed they'd be taking the conquest and an extra 200 for themselves. They said they couldn't take any off on the dealer side, in spite saying that they would 3 messages prior.

The A plan price by itself, factoring in their dealer fee, $400 for new plates (I'd transfer for $100), and 0.5% higher tax rate (it would be registered in a 6.5 county vs 7.0) would be $588.

They had the gall to ask if they could meet the $588 if I'd drive away today. I explained to them that no, that wouldn't be the case. That's the absolute base Circle A deal, and nothing special. I could get that at literally any dealer that does plan pricing.

The nerve of some of these people. Glad I'm not driving 2 hours to their dealership.

God damn. WTF is up with these dealers? If Genesis fails in the US, it will be because of ignorant, shady store practices such as this.

If you feel like a trip up north to NJ, my local dealer will honor Circle A plus all incentives all day long with no negotiation needed.

 

[FornicatorSteve]

God damn. WTF is up with these dealers? If Genesis fails in the US, it will be because of ignorant, shady store practices such as this.

If you feel like a trip up north to NJ, my local dealer will honor Circle A plus all incentives all day long with no negotiation needed.

I called up the dealer in Jersey City where Ruach got his.

They were super transparent about it. They said he got it for 559 and they took circle A, some off at the dealer, and applied the normal incentives.
They even said what they made on the deal ($250 from the circle reimbursement and then about $175 on the vehicle). So the discount he got ate most of the holdback.

I may ask them if they can do the same for me, or draw something up for a RWD so I can bring it to a dealer; all of whom claim they will beat my best offer. Applying the same deal flat would net me at 513/mo and applying the same deal as a % of MSRP would have me at 517/mo with $0 drive off.

 

[Tkpoint22]

Thanks for the advice, that is solid. I've tried different approaches as far as being upfront with circle, giving them the cert after getting them to agree on an amount off.

Every time, I've generally had something I needed to go do further research on (e.g. do the certs combine with dealer incentives, the lease deals, etc.)

I feel I'm gradually getting better prepared as far as knowledge of the program on the dealer side of things (what they can and can't do, how the discount is applied, etc.).

The only thing I am not certain on is the amount that the dealer gets reimbursed by HMA for the use of the Plan. From what I've gathered it should be a reimbursement between the invoice price and the circle price (so, they make 3% of MSRP + $250). In addition, HMA pays them the Holdback (or they retain the holdback), which is 3% off MSRP. In total, they should be making about $1525 on an RWD Sport, and then getting reimbursed about $1750 by HMA when someone uses the circle plan.

Is there anyone that may be able to confirm this?

So if this is true, a dealer technically has ~$4k off MSRP to play with, and if Circle A is used, they could technically play with ~$5.5k off MSRP (plus any other incentives like lease cash) before losing money on the deal.

And I’m sure there’s other dealer quota bonuses that help them on the back end too. All this would make sense given another recent post where someone got roughly $4k in straight dealer discounts on his 3.3t plus other incentives without using Circle A. Imagine the dealer wanted to hit a quota.

Am I thinking about this correctly?

 

[Kjs33233]

So if this is true, a dealer technically has ~$4k off MSRP to play with, and if Circle A is used, they could technically play with ~$5.5k off MSRP (plus any other incentives like lease cash) before losing money on the deal.

And I’m sure there’s other dealer quota bonuses that help them on the back end too. All this would make sense given another recent post where someone got roughly $4k in straight dealer discounts on his 3.3t plus other incentives without using Circle A. Imagine the dealer wanted to hit a quota.

Am I thinking about this correctly?

The GSM at the dealer I used got involved, and the salesman was surprised and said “boy, he just really wants to push the cars, I’m going to go to him more often.”

Must’ve been about quota.

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[Tkpoint22]

The GSM at the dealer I used got involved, and the salesman was surprised and said “boy, he just really wants to push the cars, I’m going to go to him more often.”

Must’ve been about quota.

Possibly so, and either way, anything north of $4k off before incentives seems to be a great deal! Congrats

 

[Tonester]

Hey, it seems hard to believe but I got it for $559 per month. 0 down. 36/15k, 3.3T Sport AWD 53k MSRP.
This is what I did:
1. Got the Circle A from r_spec (Again, huge thanks to r_spec!) (~3k off)
2. Get some discounts from the dealer (2~3k off)
3. Apply Lease Cash, Conquest cash and etc (~ 5k)

And boom. $559.
I had to visit dealership numerous times and make hundreds of calls in a month to get #2 steps done.
Most dealers tries to jump #2 when you apply #1 and #3 discounts but it's possible.
Good luck, hope you get a good number too.
But bro, this car is so amazing and if you happen to reach some reasonable numbers, go for it, you won't regret it having it early!

@Ruach This seems to be the best discount anyone's reported for a 3.3T. Hoping you can clarify the numbers:

1. You got circle price at ~3K off. This should be closer to 4K for a 3.3T Sport I think.
2. Dealer discounts of 2K to 3K. Can you please be more specific?
3. Lease cash plus Conquest should be $3K for 3.3T AWD plus $1K Conquest = $4K, but you reported $5K.

Hoping you can clear up the numbers so everyone can benefit from your excellent negotiating. Even better if you can post a copy of the actual deal! Thanks

 

[FornicatorSteve]

@Ruach This seems to be the best discount anyone's reported for a 3.3T. Hoping you can clarify the numbers:

1. You got circle price at ~3K off. This should be closer to 4K for a 3.3T Sport I think.
2. Dealer discounts of 2K to 3K. Can you please be more specific?
3. Lease cash plus Conquest should be $3K for 3.3T AWD plus $1K Conquest = $4K, but you reported $5K.

Hoping you can clear up the numbers so everyone can benefit from your excellent negotiating. Even better if you can post a copy of the actual deal! Thanks

I calculated this out and matched it to Jerseys taxation (I think, 7% on the cost of the total lease payment).

Although for some reason, I did this based on 559 with 559 as the drive off.

It came to a selling price of ~$46,200 which is about a ~2158 discount from circle A, or 4.1% of the MSRP as a difference.

Of course, if it was 0 drive away and the first months payment wasn't made, then it would be even less.

This, for reference, would be about a $2050 to $2080 discount on a RWD sport and would net payments (at 7% sales tax on lease payment, $915 dealer fee, $200 tag fee) of around 504/mo with 504 being the drive away cost (first months payment) on a 36/12 lease.

 

[Bill_7]

In the process of looking at and hopefully leasing a G70 in the coming weeks. Any advantage to putting any money down or should you always aim for $0 down?

 

[Tonester]

I calculated this out and matched it to Jerseys taxation (I think, 7% on the cost of the total lease payment).

Although for some reason, I did this based on 559 with 559 as the drive off.

It came to a selling price of ~$46,200 which is about a ~2158 discount from circle A, or 4.1% of the MSRP as a difference.

Of course, if it was 0 drive away and the first months payment wasn't made, then it would be even less.

This, for reference, would be about a $2050 to $2080 discount on a RWD sport and would net payments (at 7% sales tax on lease payment, $915 dealer fee, $200 tag fee) of around 504/mo with 504 being the drive away cost (first months payment) on a 36/12 lease.

To me it's easier to see the actual discount by taking the lease and lease payment out of the equation as there are many variables involved that don't help in analyzing the deal. Seems like in the absence of absolute numbers, you are backing up Rauch's numbers by reverse engineering from the $559 lease payment and guessing about what tax was paid.

I'd like to see more absolute numbers for comparison sake:
MSRP
Circle A discount
Dealer discount
Dealer fees
Conquest or other incentive
Lease cash
Actual pre-tax selling price not including registration

Knowing the above numbers helps everyone compare with their own state tax and financing and levels the playing field for easy comparison to your local market and your dealer.

Sorry I should have posted in the Post Purchase Price Details thread

 

[FornicatorSteve]

To me it's easier to see the actual discount by taking the lease and lease payment out of the equation as there are many variables involved that don't help in analyzing the deal. Seems like in the absence of absolute numbers, you are backing up Rauch's numbers by reverse engineering from the $559 lease payment and guessing about what tax was paid.

I'd like to see more absolute numbers for comparison sake:
MSRP
Circle A discount
Dealer discount
Dealer fees
Conquest or other incentive
Lease cash
Actual pre-tax selling price not including registration

Knowing the above numbers helps everyone compare with their own state tax and financing and levels the playing field for easy comparison to your local market and your dealer.

I'd like to know this as well, but with the information at hand it's the best I've got.

I did call to confirm with Genesis of Jersey City that they did the deal and they said my figures were "pretty much spot on", but I didn't do any further pressing.

The taxation rate was based on a tax handbook on New Jersey's gov site and from the sales tax handbook, but a Google search shows it differs from those sources (7% vs 6.625%).

I did send a PM a bit ago, so here's hoping. If anything, I suppose we could call that dealer again and basically request the same deal. I'm sure they could arrange shipping.

Someone on the G70 FB page was advertising their dealer (they were the finance manager) and said to bring them any deal and they'd beat it by $500 and free shipping. (I'd still prefer a RWD though, they only had AWD).

 

[Ruach]

I calculated this out and matched it to Jerseys taxation (I think, 7% on the cost of the total lease payment).

Although for some reason, I did this based on 559 with 559 as the drive off.

It came to a selling price of ~$46,200 which is about a ~2158 discount from circle A, or 4.1% of the MSRP as a difference.

Of course, if it was 0 drive away and the first months payment wasn't made, then it would be even less.

This, for reference, would be about a $2050 to $2080 discount on a RWD sport and would net payments (at 7% sales tax on lease payment, $915 dealer fee, $200 tag fee) of around 504/mo with 504 being the drive away cost (first months payment) on a 36/12 lease.

Sorry guys, I was out for business trips for few weeks...
Here is my numbers from my contract.
Hope this helps!

May 2019
MSRP: 53,270
Title and Registration fee: 239.50
Gross Cap Cost: 47696.74
Capitalized Cost Reduction: 4067.31 (all from rebates)
Total Capitalized Cost / Adjusted Cost: 43629.43
Acquisition Fee: 750
Total Fixed cost of Lease: 45,971.52

Amount of periodic Payment: 559
45,000 miles. 36 month
NJ Tax: 6.625%
0 drive off, just the first month payment of 559

So I got about 2k discounts from Circle A (thanks r_spec!) and 3~4k discounts from the dealer. Total around ~ 5.5k discounts.
Then, I got another 4k from lease cash and the conquest (3K+1K).
MF was .0002 and RV of 51% in May I believe.
Let me know if you guys have more questions!

 

[nellie1289]

Sorry guys, I was out for business trips for few weeks...
Here is my numbers from my contract.
Hope this helps!

May 2019
MSRP: 53,270
Title and Registration fee: 239.50
Gross Cap Cost: 47696.74
Capitalized Cost Reduction: 4067.31 (all from rebates)
Total Capitalized Cost / Adjusted Cost: 43629.43
Acquisition Fee: 750
Total Fixed cost of Lease: 45,971.52

Amount of periodic Payment: 559
45,000 miles. 36 month
NJ Tax: 6.625%
0 drive off, just the first month payment of 559

So I got about 2k discounts from Circle A (thanks r_spec!) and 3~4k discounts from the dealer. Total around ~ 5.5k discounts.
Then, I got another 4k from lease cash and the conquest (3K+1K).
MF was .0002 and RV of 51% in May I believe.
Let me know if you guys have more questions!

That is a good payment with a terrible money factor.

 

[Mcc]

That is a good payment with a terrible money factor.

If it’s terrible compared to close to zero, how much more interest is that over the course of the lease? It would seem to me to be significant, assuming he does not pay off the lease early. But perhaps my math is not correct.

 

[nellie1289]

If it’s terrible compared to close to zero, how much more interest is that over the course of the lease? It would seem to me to be significant, assuming he does not pay off the lease early. But perhaps my math is not correct.

His money factor is .0002 as he self quoted. That is 4.8% as an actual interest rate. (.0002x 2400). This means he is borrowing the cap cost at 4.8% over the life of his lease down to the residual. This is why he may have got the larger dealer rebate. Most here getting money factors at less than 1%