Genesis Connected Services is selling Driving behavior, Location & Speed data to insurance companies

[sting70r]

I've been researching the Genesis Connected Services on the G70. I see a LTE symbol + cell signal indicators on my G70 and can tell it's connected to the internet, although I haven't activated my 'Connected Service'. Working in tech, I'm highly skeptical of products and services that are connected to the internet, especially when there's limited to no visibility in what's going on behind the scenes... this is especially true for my car.

I came across the Terms and Service + Privacy Policy for the Connected Service and it's pretty concerning.
Some excerpts are noted below, with emphasis added throughout. If you want the TL;DR version read the bolded/colored parts.

C. Wireless Carriers.
You do not have any right in the wireless phone number assigned to your Connected Services System. We can change the number at any time.

each car is assigned a phone number (data + phone connection), that is unique and allows for constant tracking to provide the service


Data is constantly being gathered from the car and the T&C sections that are most important and concerning are below.

Be sure to substitute in "will" for each instance of the word "may". The word 'may' is used to maintain plausible deniability for these sorts of legal agreements. Keep an eye out for usage of the word "includes" or variants, this means the things noted is not comprehensive

A. Information Collected and Used by Us.

In providing the Connected Services to you and as more fully set forth in the Blue Link Service Subscriber Privacy Policy and Genesis Connected Services Subscriber Privacy Policy, we may collect and retain an electronic or other record of certain information about you and/or occupants of your Vehicle including: your Vehicle’s description, location, speed, direction of travel, time of travel, service data, eco-related driving performance or charging data, mechanical condition or incidents involving your Vehicle, your search content, information about anyone making a Connected Services call from your Vehicle or under your account; the date, time and duration of call and any Blue Link Agent notes written during a call. You agree that we may record or monitor your Vehicle’s location or other information when (1) the Connected Services is active in your Vehicle ... ; or (6) when your vehicle’s data is aggregated for general analysis and quality improvement purposes.

Your Vehicle may also be equipped with one or more sensing or diagnostic modules capable of automatically retrieving, recording, transmitting, or storing certain vehicle data, such as trouble codes, tire pressure, battery voltage, coolant temperature, eco-related driving performance or charging habits, and service requirements.

All data from the vehicle can be gathered anytime, regardless of active Connected Service state.

Here's one of the most important sections

We use the information we collect from you or occupants of your Vehicle to: deliver the Connected Services to you, manage your Connected Services account, improve occupant and vehicle safety, analysis and research purposes, improve your Connected Services experience at our dealers, provide service notifications/alerts, participate in government subsidy or incentive programs that benefit you or HMA directly or indirectly, and enhance your overall ownership experience.
...
We share the information we collect with Service Providers for purposes of providing the Connected Services and maintaining your account. We may also share information as necessary with third parties for analysis and research purposes, including our Usage Based Insurace providers (e.g., Verisk) and data analytics partners. As part of the Usage Based Insurance program, anonymized driving data will be available to other third parties for analysis, but will never provide your personal information to any non-Service Provider participants in the program without your additional express consent.

This is an explicit notice stating Hyundai WILL share your collected data with Verisk, and companies like them as part of your uage of Connected Sevice. Verisk is a publicly traded company that specializes in risk for insurance companies, govts etc. (Verisk is also one explicit, example company that will receive your data)

Hyundai notes that your personal information will not be sold to any "non-Service providers", which means all the data that's collected about you will be shared with companies like Verisk because they are a Service Provider, rather than some random 3rd party. They also note that your driving data will be available to others downstream.

It gets better. This is a PR release from Hyundai admitting to all this, in 2018:

Hyundai Motor America has signed an agreement to join the Verisk Data Exchange™. This agreement also means Hyundai will supply Verisk with driving data via its Blue Link connected car service from consenting car owners.

Hyundai Motor America Selects Verisk For Usage-Based Insurance

/PRNewswire/ -- Hyundai Motor America and Verisk, a leading data analytics provider, today announced an alignment to bring usage-based insurance (UBI) programs...

www.prnewswire.com

Reaching an agreement means your data doesn't need to be sold, it can simply be shared. By consenting car owners, they mean everyone that agreed to the terms & conditions above and are using 'Connected Services' on a Hyundai/Genesis.

The PR story goes on to tell about how great it will be to reduce insurance and lower premiums, as that's the only positive spin to what they're doing... the data that's being collected (where you go, how you drive, at what times etc) is valuable to all sorts of people, especially to those of us within data-analytics space.

If a driver opts in, insurers can use the score from the Verisk Data Exchange to support usage-based insurance programs through a related rating rule available for use in 42 states and the District of Columbia. Driving tips and reports can also be provided to customers to encourage safer and more efficient driving.

You "opted-in" by using Connected Services and your driving data is available to insurance companies (and anyone else Verisk + Hyundai sells data to).

****

I do not know about you, but I have zero interest in having my 'spirited driving', speeding behavior and other usage data "shared" with 3rd parties, including insurance companies. I will be trying to remove this tracking system completely from my G70.

 

[Kraig Wilkinson]

I've been researching the Genesis Connected Services on the G70. I see a LTE symbol + cell signal indicators on my G70 and can tell it's connected to the internet, although I haven't activated my 'Connected Service'. Working in tech, I'm highly skeptical of products and services that are connected to the internet, especially when there's limited to no visibility in what's going on behind the scenes... this is especially true for my car.

I came across the Terms and Service + Privacy Policy for the Connected Service and it's pretty concerning.
Some excerpts are noted below, with emphasis added throughout. If you want the TL;DR version read the bolded/colored parts.



each car is assigned a phone number (data + phone connection), that is unique and allows for constant tracking to provide the service


Data is constantly being gathered from the car and the T&C sections that are most important and concerning are below.

Be sure to substitute in "will" for each instance of the word "may". The word 'may' is used to maintain plausible deniability for these sorts of legal agreements. Keep an eye out for usage of the word "includes" or variants, this means the things noted is not comprehensive



All data from the vehicle can be gathered anytime, regardless of active Connected Service state.

Here's one of the most important sections



This is an explicit notice stating Hyundai WILL share your collected data with Verisk, and companies like them as part of your uage of Connected Sevice. Verisk is a publicly traded company that specializes in risk for insurance companies, govts etc. (Verisk is also one explicit, example company that will receive your data)

Hyundai notes that your personal information will not be sold to any "non-Service providers", which means all the data that's collected about you will be shared with companies like Verisk because they are a Service Provider, rather than some random 3rd party. They also note that your driving data will be available to others downstream.

It gets better. This is a PR release from Hyundai admitting to all this, in 2018:



Reaching an agreement means your data doesn't need to be sold, it can simply be shared. By consenting car owners, they mean everyone that agreed to the terms & conditions above and are using 'Connected Services' on a Hyundai/Genesis.

The PR story goes on to tell about how great it will be to reduce insurance and lower premiums, as that's the only positive spin to what they're doing... the data that's being collected (where you go, how you drive, at what times etc) is valuable to all sorts of people, especially to those of us within data-analytics space.



You "opted-in" by using Connected Services and your driving data is available to insurance companies (and anyone else Verisk + Hyundai sells data to).

****

I do not know about you, but I have zero interest in having my 'spirited driving', speeding behavior and other usage data "shared" with 3rd parties, including insurance companies. I will be trying to remove this tracking system completely from my G70.

WTF?

 

[Speeder]

I've been researching the Genesis Connected Services on the G70. I see a LTE symbol + cell signal indicators on my G70 and can tell it's connected to the internet, although I haven't activated my 'Connected Service'. Working in tech, I'm highly skeptical of products and services that are connected to the internet, especially when there's limited to no visibility in what's going on behind the scenes... this is especially true for my car.

I came across the Terms and Service + Privacy Policy for the Connected Service and it's pretty concerning.
Some excerpts are noted below, with emphasis added throughout. If you want the TL;DR version read the bolded/colored parts.



each car is assigned a phone number (data + phone connection), that is unique and allows for constant tracking to provide the service


Data is constantly being gathered from the car and the T&C sections that are most important and concerning are below.

Be sure to substitute in "will" for each instance of the word "may". The word 'may' is used to maintain plausible deniability for these sorts of legal agreements. Keep an eye out for usage of the word "includes" or variants, this means the things noted is not comprehensive



All data from the vehicle can be gathered anytime, regardless of active Connected Service state.

Here's one of the most important sections



This is an explicit notice stating Hyundai WILL share your collected data with Verisk, and companies like them as part of your uage of Connected Sevice. Verisk is a publicly traded company that specializes in risk for insurance companies, govts etc. (Verisk is also one explicit, example company that will receive your data)

Hyundai notes that your personal information will not be sold to any "non-Service providers", which means all the data that's collected about you will be shared with companies like Verisk because they are a Service Provider, rather than some random 3rd party. They also note that your driving data will be available to others downstream.

It gets better. This is a PR release from Hyundai admitting to all this, in 2018:



Reaching an agreement means your data doesn't need to be sold, it can simply be shared. By consenting car owners, they mean everyone that agreed to the terms & conditions above and are using 'Connected Services' on a Hyundai/Genesis.

The PR story goes on to tell about how great it will be to reduce insurance and lower premiums, as that's the only positive spin to what they're doing... the data that's being collected (where you go, how you drive, at what times etc) is valuable to all sorts of people, especially to those of us within data-analytics space.



You "opted-in" by using Connected Services and your driving data is available to insurance companies (and anyone else Verisk + Hyundai sells data to).

****

I do not know about you, but I have zero interest in having my 'spirited driving', speeding behavior and other usage data "shared" with 3rd parties, including insurance companies. I will be trying to remove this tracking system completely from my G70.

I've been researching the Genesis Connected Services on the G70. I see a LTE symbol + cell signal indicators on my G70 and can tell it's connected to the internet, although I haven't activated my 'Connected Service'. Working in tech, I'm highly skeptical of products and services that are connected to the internet, especially when there's limited to no visibility in what's going on behind the scenes... this is especially true for my car.

I came across the Terms and Service + Privacy Policy for the Connected Service and it's pretty concerning.
Some excerpts are noted below, with emphasis added throughout. If you want the TL;DR version read the bolded/colored parts.



each car is assigned a phone number (data + phone connection), that is unique and allows for constant tracking to provide the service


Data is constantly being gathered from the car and the T&C sections that are most important and concerning are below.

Be sure to substitute in "will" for each instance of the word "may". The word 'may' is used to maintain plausible deniability for these sorts of legal agreements. Keep an eye out for usage of the word "includes" or variants, this means the things noted is not comprehensive



All data from the vehicle can be gathered anytime, regardless of active Connected Service state.

Here's one of the most important sections



This is an explicit notice stating Hyundai WILL share your collected data with Verisk, and companies like them as part of your uage of Connected Sevice. Verisk is a publicly traded company that specializes in risk for insurance companies, govts etc. (Verisk is also one explicit, example company that will receive your data)

Hyundai notes that your personal information will not be sold to any "non-Service providers", which means all the data that's collected about you will be shared with companies like Verisk because they are a Service Provider, rather than some random 3rd party. They also note that your driving data will be available to others downstream.

It gets better. This is a PR release from Hyundai admitting to all this, in 2018:



Reaching an agreement means your data doesn't need to be sold, it can simply be shared. By consenting car owners, they mean everyone that agreed to the terms & conditions above and are using 'Connected Services' on a Hyundai/Genesis.

The PR story goes on to tell about how great it will be to reduce insurance and lower premiums, as that's the only positive spin to what they're doing... the data that's being collected (where you go, how you drive, at what times etc) is valuable to all sorts of people, especially to those of us within data-analytics space.



You "opted-in" by using Connected Services and your driving data is available to insurance companies (and anyone else Verisk + Hyundai sells data to).

****

I do not know about you, but I have zero interest in having my 'spirited driving', speeding behavior and other usage data "shared" with 3rd parties, including insurance companies. I will be trying to remove this tracking system completely from my G70.

Oh, so the Insurance Provider should take all the risk when you're driving beyond your abilities and screw up? This way they can just spread the loss across all the premiums they collect from everybody, I get it.

I have no problem being held accountable for my actions.

 

[EdP]

WTF?

One line is most important:
As part of the Usage Based Insurance program, anonymized driving data will be available to other third parties for analysis, but will never provide your personal information to any non-Service Provider participants in the program without your additional express consent.

If you fear this, I suggest you never use Google, Amazon, eBay, any internet provider, cell phone company. Pay your tolls in cash, no EZ Pass. Do not send your DNA to any of those ancestry things either. (one just solved a 30 year old murder) Cell phone tracking has caught many a criminal but they can track your speed too.

 

[Kraig Wilkinson]

One line is most important:
As part of the Usage Based Insurance program, anonymized driving data will be available to other third parties for analysis, but will never provide your personal information to any non-Service Provider participants in the program without your additional express consent.

If you fear this, I suggest you never use Google, Amazon, eBay, any internet provider, cell phone company. Pay your tolls in cash, no EZ Pass. Do not send your DNA to any of those ancestry things either. (one just solved a 30 year old murder) Cell phone tracking has caught many a criminal but they can track your speed too.

I agree with you , there are many positives. I like to think of my car as my sanctuary. I guess I am safe when I drive my older vehicles! But the 15 Genny I sometimes drive can deliver my info to others even though I don't have bluelink?

 

[Mr. Incredible]

One line is most important:
As part of the Usage Based Insurance program, anonymized driving data will be available to other third parties for analysis, but will never provide your personal information to any non-Service Provider participants in the program without your additional express consent.

If you fear this, I suggest you never use Google, Amazon, eBay, any internet provider, cell phone company. Pay your tolls in cash, no EZ Pass. Do not send your DNA to any of those ancestry things either. (one just solved a 30 year old murder) Cell phone tracking has caught many a criminal but they can track your speed too.

In addition don’t have kids or if you do home school them, data collection starts at school age. Standardized testing now required by both public, private, and charter schools is all done electronically for the purpose of data collection to be used in career determination and contribution to society analysis, credit Worthiness and the like.

China has already started public social credit system using facial recognition software that doles out punishinment and public rankings for credit users.

China has started ranking citizens with a creepy 'social credit' system — here's what you can do wrong, and the embarrassing, demeaning ways they can punish you

 

[Mcc]

One line is most important:
As part of the Usage Based Insurance program, anonymized driving data will be available to other third parties for analysis, but will never provide your personal information to any non-Service Provider participants in the program without your additional express consent.

thanks for your voice of reason!

 

[Kraig Wilkinson]

In addition don’t have kids or if you do home school them, data collection starts at school age. Standardized testing now required by both public, private, and charter schools is all done electronically for the purpose of data collection to be used in career determination and contribution to society analysis, credit Worthiness and the like.

China has already started public social credit system using facial recognition software that doles out punishinment and public rankings for credit users.

China has started ranking citizens with a creepy 'social credit' system — here's what you can do wrong, and the embarrassing, demeaning ways they can punish you

Yes I have watched some programs on that China stuff
I think they give you a citizen rating, good citizen you get money ,trips. Bad citizen you are ridiculed. Crazy stuff.

 

[Husky]

I agree with Sting70R, it sounds fishy, and much more likely to work against you than for you.
Just because someone drives in a "spirited manner" or breaks the speed limit does not necessarily mean they are driving beyond their capability. Just because you might be going 40 in a zone posted at 30 doesn't mean you're out of control. Speed traps are a good example. In my daily commute to work, almost all the cars were going 70-75 in a zone posted at 55. Going 55 would have been dangerous due to the speed differential. But the shared data just says you're going 15-20 over there limit.
In the end, I'm sure what Genesis gets out of the Connected Services is much more than I will get out of it. What am I going to use it for, to request valet service that may not work or that I don't want to use? Meanwhile Genesis is collecting data on me constantly as I drive.

 

[Speeder]

Anyone have a GM with Onstar. I've never paid for ONStar, let it run out after the initial 3 year "free" period. Have had the car for >4 years now. Let's look at some of last months report.

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[EdP]

I agree with Sting70R, it sounds fishy, and much more likely to work against you than for you.
Just because someone drives in a "spirited manner" or breaks the speed limit does not necessarily mean they are driving beyond their capability. Just because you might be going 40 in a zone posted at 30 doesn't mean you're out of control. Speed traps are a good example. In my daily commute to work, almost all the cars were going 70-75 in a zone posted at 55. Going 55 would have been dangerous due to the speed differential. But the shared data just says you're going 15-20 over there limit.
In the end, I'm sure what Genesis gets out of the Connected Services is much more than I will get out of it. What am I going to use it for, to request valet service that may not work or that I don't want to use? Meanwhile Genesis is collecting data on me constantly as I drive.

Some insurance companies offer discounts for safe driving if you install a device in your car. Now I agree with not having that as there is a direct link to you. Genesis does not know who my insurance company is and they do not share information about individuals.

If you are reading this, you are being tracked by someone. If you are worried, stay off the internet, get rid of cable TV as they know what you are watching. Do not use the telephone. Wear a mask as you enter most every store too. There are even cameras on the streets in some cities.

Depending on your level of paranoia you will really have to hide out. I graduated from 8th grade in 1959 and have moved 5 times and 3 states but they tracked me down looking for donations. Same with high school. My electric company know what I use on a daily basis. IMO, cruising the highway at 10 over is the least of it.

 

[Husky]

I'm totally aware of all the tracking and data collection going on. My point is that I don't have a desire to add to it with yet another level of tracking and collection, and unlike using the internet, where I gain a benefit on a daily basis, I don't really see the benefit of it in this case.

 

[Mr. Incredible]

I'm totally aware of all the tracking and data collection going on. My point is that I don't have a desire to add to it with yet another level of tracking and collection, and unlike using the internet, where I gain a benefit on a daily basis, I don't really see the benefit of it in this case.

the “benefit“so they say, is that the insurance companies use this data to raise your rates under the guise that drivers of your specific vehicle take more chances, drive faster, brake harder, change lanes without signals, blah blah blah.


i don’t agree with it, but sadly this is the data collection age, everything everywhere is collecting data about you and there is little you can do about it.

in California effective Jan 1. 2020 a new law goes into effect that gives the consumers some additional rights, but not much.

A New California Privacy Law Could Affect Every U.S. Business—Will You Be Ready?

 

[Husky]

the “benefit“so they say, is that the insurance companies use this data to raise your rates under the guise that drivers of your specific vehicle take more chances, drive faster, brake harder, change lanes without signals, blah blah blah.


i don’t agree with it, but sadly this is the data collection age, everything everywhere is collecting data about you and there is little you can do about it.

in California effective Jan 1. 2020 a new law goes into effect that gives the consumers some additional rights, but not much.

A New California Privacy Law Could Affect Every U.S. Business—Will You Be Ready?

Yeah, agreed. I meant that I don't see the benefit TO ME.

 

[EdP]

Yeah, agreed. I meant that I don't see the benefit TO ME.

Hopefully, the benefit to the driver is they use the information to build cars for the way we want to drive with the features we want and use the most.

 

[Speeder]

Here's something for Gmail users, think your not being tracked.

 

[pulsar]

Genesis spying on us or collecting data is really chump change with the big picture. There are cameras most everywhere we go these days, intersections have them, toll roads have them, parking lots at malls have them, my church has them. We really have very little privacy when you think about it. I carry little cash and charge most everything for I like the points. I’m sure somewhere somebody knows exactly where I shop and what I buy. Amazon knows what I’m browsing on as does Google so they target ads to me. I don’t like or agree on any of this, but unless I’m going to move to a island somewhere and be a hermit, there is little I can do to avoid most of this other than don’t over-think it and just do my daily thing and not lose sleep over it.

 

[YEH]

Don't AA and CarPlay do the same thing?

This is why having the latest and greatest (convenience) tech isn't always a good thing, but it's becoming more and more difficult to avoid tracking, harvesting of personal info, etc.

 

[Slip_Angle]

Maybe they can help me improve my drifting... I'm pretty good turning left but going right is more tricky.

 

[Mcc]

I like to think of my car as my sanctuary.

if it makes you feel better then that is fine but in fact is just an illusion.

Don't AA and CarPlay do the same thing?

Of course they are the same thing. I think though that you will have more privacy wih Apple CarPlay than AA. The Android folks might chose to disregard this but still get worked up about Genesis Connected Services.

This is why having the latest and greatest (convenience) tech isn't always a good thing

But it isn’t always bad either. It’s a trade off. No one forces you to use the technology If it’s under your control