Genesis Connected Services is selling Driving behavior, Location & Speed data to insurance companies

[daviderle]

One thing to note, although both vehicles blue link subscriptions ran out some 9 months ago, I still see the cellular symbol being active, this may indicate although the blue link service is inactive, both my cars still could be sending telemetry data somewhere, that may or may not being processed, sold etc...
I don’t think there is a viable way to disable the cellular service without comprising the head unit. So, might as well swallow the red pill tonight, “wake up in the morning and believe whatever“... (Matrix reference).

 

[sting70r]

since there are new owners since I'd posted this last year, bumping.
Genesis Connected Service sells your driving data to Verisk if you've got it enabled...

as an aside, my day job is working on building big data tech that's sold to massive firms... every company is trying to mine and harvest user-data to maximize profits. Insurance companies are at the cutting edge of machine learning & data science tech adoption as they're keen on maximizing profit by reducing as much risk as possible... while Hyundai/Genesis made a Press Release on this venture with Verisk, many other firms do these sort of things behind the scenes to minimize public attention on what they're doing.

 

[Mcc]

According to Genesis:
“Anonymized and Aggregated DataWe may share aggregate or de-identified information with third parties for research, marketing, analytics, and other purposes, provided such information does not reasonably identify you.

Aggregate and De-Identified Information
We also may use and disclose aggregate, anonymous, or deidentified information about users for marketing, advertising, research, compliance, or other purposes, including select third parties who may use this data to better understand aggregate driving and traffic patterns, update maps and route details, analyze road conditions, and for other own research, development and analytics purposes.”

i can’t think of anything that I do that isn’t tracked and potentially sold including visiting this site.

 

[sting70r]

According to Genesis:
“Anonymized and Aggregated DataWe may share aggregate or de-identified information with third parties for research, marketing, analytics, and other purposes, provided such information does not reasonably identify you.

Aggregate and De-Identified Information
We also may use and disclose aggregate, anonymous, or deidentified information about users for marketing, advertising, research, compliance, or other purposes, including select third parties who may use this data to better understand aggregate driving and traffic patterns, update maps and route details, analyze road conditions, and for other own research, development and analytics purposes.”

i can’t think of anything that I do that isn’t tracked and potentially sold including visiting this site.

I am not sure what you're getting at... this is not verbiage and language present in the Genesis Connected Service Terms and Conditions.

Connected Services Agreement Terms and Conditions | MyGenesis

View the Genesis Connected Services Agreement Terms and Conditions

owners.genesis.com

^ that is what you accept when you sign up for the service and what my posts in page 1 and beyond are about.

What you seemed to have referenced appears to be generic T&C / Privacy policy stuff from the Genesis website. That is generally boilerplate language and you'll find T&C elsewhere. Using data in aggregate and anonymous ways is different than what's noted in the T&C above for connected services.

You're observation that things are tracked across the web is generally correct, although things sold for marketing reasons (esp in an anonymized way) is completely different from individual driving behavior sold to an insurance data broker, which in-turn directly affects the same individuals' policy and premiums.

 

[sting70r]

a bump for the many new Genesis owners that may be unaware.

- an ex-G70 owner

 

[Mcc]

a bump for the many new Genesis owners that may be unaware.

- an ex-G70 owner

So what part of this bothers you?

We use the information we collect from you or occupants of the Vehicle to: deliver the Connected Services related products and services to you, manage your Connected Services account, improve occupant and vehicle safety, conduct internal analysis and research to improve product, product quality, and security of the vehicles, improve your Connected Services experience at our dealers, identify quality and service related issues and provide service notifications/alerts, participate in government subsidy or incentive programs that benefit you or HMA directly or indirectly, and enhance your overall ownership experience. We will not sell, trade, or rent your personal information to others without your authorization consistent with the terms of this Agreement. We share certain information collected from the Connected Services with our dealers or authorized repair facilities to assist in performing service diagnosis and repair and to improve your customer experience. We share the information we collect with Service Providers for purposes of providing the Connected Services and maintaining your account. We may also share information as necessary with third parties for analysis and research purposes, including our Usage Based Insurance providers (e.g., Verisk) and data analytics partners. As part of the Usage Based Insurance program, anonymized driving data will be available to other third parties for analysis. We will never provide your personal information to any non-Service Provider participants in the program without your additional express consent. All Service Providers or third parties are contractually obligated to keep your information confidential if it is identifiable to you and use such information only as we specify. We may also disclose information to individuals designated by you to be contacted in an emergency. When required, you agree we may release information, including location data, to comply with applicable laws or regulations, in legal proceedings to respond to judicial subpoenas or court orders, in cooperation with law enforcement agencies, and to enforce the terms of this Agreement and any agreement related to the lease or financing of the Vehicle. We may share certain of the Vehicle information with government entities consistent with this agreement and as permitted by applicable law. You should know that we have no control over the manner in which such a government entity may use your data. Any data which we collect or which you provide to us which is not identifiable to you, including functionality use, statistics, performance data, quality metrics, shall be owned by us.

 

[JCtx]

I don't think they can do that without your consent, but just in case, log into your account, and make sure that 'feature' is disabled. I just checked the Hyundai app, and the damn 'shared data' was turned on. I remember turning off everything. Geez. But the insurance one was turned off, at least. I had a 'driving score' of 93, so at least not bad. But if I had it left on during my long trip starting next week, it'd have gone down the toilet. Ha ha.

However, I just noticed I had 'Genesis Intelligent Assistant' in the cloud, and cannot erase it completely. I put 'delete', and it stays in the stupid cloud. How can I remove it from the cloud? And just downloaded 'Genesis Connected Services', but it doesn't load at all. What the heck is wrong with that thing? Will log into my genesis account right now, and check that crap is turned off. But surprised I couldn't download the app. Will have to call tomorrow.

EDIT: Just checked, and the damn shared data was on too; geez. Turned it off already. Had 96 there, so not that bad. But had yellow marks on the speed, since the stupid data was on when I took it on a trip. The damn thing is turning on automatically, I bet. Will keep an eye on that. Still stumped why I cannot use the app on my iPhone.

 

[TinsleyC]

When you buy the car, I imagine it says somewhere in the fine print that by buying the car, you agree to our terms and conditions.

 

[sting70r]

So what part of this bothers you?

We use the information we collect from you or occupants of the Vehicle to: deliver the Connected Services related products and services to you, manage your Connected Services account, improve occupant and vehicle safety, conduct internal analysis and research to improve product, product quality, and security of the vehicles, improve your Connected Services experience at our dealers, identify quality and service related issues and provide service notifications/alerts, participate in government subsidy or incentive programs that benefit you or HMA directly or indirectly, and enhance your overall ownership experience. We will not sell, trade, or rent your personal information to others without your authorization consistent with the terms of this Agreement. We share certain information collected from the Connected Services with our dealers or authorized repair facilities to assist in performing service diagnosis and repair and to improve your customer experience. We share the information we collect with Service Providers for purposes of providing the Connected Services and maintaining your account. We may also share information as necessary with third parties for analysis and research purposes, including our Usage Based Insurance providers (e.g., Verisk) and data analytics partners. As part of the Usage Based Insurance program, anonymized driving data will be available to other third parties for analysis. We will never provide your personal information to any non-Service Provider participants in the program without your additional express consent. All Service Providers or third parties are contractually obligated to keep your information confidential if it is identifiable to you and use such information only as we specify. We may also disclose information to individuals designated by you to be contacted in an emergency. When required, you agree we may release information, including location data, to comply with applicable laws or regulations, in legal proceedings to respond to judicial subpoenas or court orders, in cooperation with law enforcement agencies, and to enforce the terms of this Agreement and any agreement related to the lease or financing of the Vehicle. We may share certain of the Vehicle information with government entities consistent with this agreement and as permitted by applicable law. You should know that we have no control over the manner in which such a government entity may use your data. Any data which we collect or which you provide to us which is not identifiable to you, including functionality use, statistics, performance data, quality metrics, shall be owned by us.

>We will never provide your personal information to any non-Service Provider participants in the program without your additional express consent.
they won't provide it to non-Service providers, but they do provide it to Service providers, like the one noted.

read what I put earlier in the thread. I'm not here to repeat everything I noted over 2 years ago, which remains unchanged.

I don't think they can do that without your consent, but just in case, log into your account, and make sure that 'feature' is disabled. I just checked the Hyundai app, and the damn 'shared data' was turned on. I remember turning off everything. Geez. But the insurance one was turned off, at least. I had a 'driving score' of 93, so at least not bad. But if I had it left on during my long trip starting next week, it'd have gone down the toilet. Ha ha.

However, I just noticed I had 'Genesis Intelligent Assistant' in the cloud, and cannot erase it completely. I put 'delete', and it stays in the stupid cloud. How can I remove it from the cloud? And just downloaded 'Genesis Connected Services', but it doesn't load at all. What the heck is wrong with that thing? Will log into my genesis account right now, and check that crap is turned off. But surprised I couldn't download the app. Will have to call tomorrow.

EDIT: Just checked, and the damn shared data was on too; geez. Turned it off already. Had 96 there, so not that bad. But had yellow marks on the speed, since the stupid data was on when I took it on a trip. The damn thing is turning on automatically, I bet. Will keep an eye on that. Still stumped why I cannot use the app on my iPhone.

When you agree to get connected services at the dealership you agree to a set of terms (by digital / physically signing at the finance office), which includes providing data to 3rd parties. You can't fully opt-out of the data collection if you have connected services. It's a condition of having Connected Service and why it's included free.

The only way to truly opt out is disabling Connected Services via customer service, so that the data sim card in the vehicle that's transmitting driving data back to Genesis is disabled.

When you buy the car, I imagine it says somewhere in the fine print that by buying the car, you agree to our terms and conditions.

lol - buying a car is not like a SaaS T&C. This is data mining tied to Connected Service specifically. It's an optional capability, although it's positioned as a freebie, which encourages people to take advantage of it (with the typical customer being clueless about any legal contracts and what's noted within it).

 

[Mcc]

I'm not here to repeat everything I noted over 2 years ago, which remains unchanged.

Me neither, yet you did.

crazy idea trying to use the data to improve the service. What other company would do stuff like that.

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[JCtx]

You can't fully opt-out of the data collection if you have connected services.

That's true of anything electronic we use, but you can definitely opt out of sharing your driving information, because there's an option for that, as well as transmitting it to insurance companies. I declined both, but the former was turned on. If you don't notice that, then you're transmitting everything. A good way to know is if you have a 'driving score'. If you do, then you have the sharing turned on.

 

[TinsleyC]

lol - buying a car is not like a SaaS T&C. This is data mining tied to Connected Service specifically.

Not so sure what is so funny about it, what I'm trying to say is that I'm sure it says in the fine print that we agree to their terms and conditions. Does anyone read it? I'm not arguing with you.

Like, were you aware that free service loaners was optional based on dealer participation? It's in writing, but few have read it, and few are aware. They certainly didn't tell me that when I bought my car, but they did tell me that I could get a loaner when I bring my car in for service. In reality, you have to schedule at 3 or 4 weeks out, and then it's a dice roll.

 

[njrod]

Found it interesting that my ins co dropped my premier driver discount I've had for decades. 6months after getting my G70. 1st car ive owned thats connected. I disabled the driving score stuff but that probably is useless. Need to call and find out why. Driving record is spotless. I do drive my gen w enthusiasm.

 

[rakker]

Automakers Are Sharing Consumers’ Driving Behavior With Insurance Companies (Published 2024)

LexisNexis, which generates consumer risk profiles for the insurers, knew about every trip G.M. drivers had taken in their cars, including when they sped, braked too hard or accelerated rapidly.

www.nytimes.com

 

[TinsleyC]

Automakers Are Sharing Consumers’ Driving Behavior With Insurance Companies (Published 2024)

LexisNexis, which generates consumer risk profiles for the insurers, knew about every trip G.M. drivers had taken in their cars, including when they sped, braked too hard or accelerated rapidly.

www.nytimes.com

NYT has a paywall, can't read the article. But I caught in a flash that the Chevy Bolt is one of many cars giving up data.

 

[tarhoosier]

"In recent years, automakers, including G.M., Honda, Kia and Hyundai, have started offering optional features in their connected-car apps that rate people’s driving. Some drivers may not realize that, if they turn on these features, the car companies then give information about how they drive to data brokers like LexisNexis."

This quote above is from the article. Not exclusive to these makers but named in the story.

 

[steveinarizona]

the key words here are "usage based insurance". This refers to the various insurance plans whereby one agrees to having the insurer monitor your driving in return for reduced rates. So if you don't sign up for one of these plans, the insurance sharing doesn't apply to you.

 

[stemarcoh]

First time seeing this thread. Quickly checked the iPhone app and also Connected Services Web site. I don't see driver score anywhere. Did they remove it or is it hiding?

Also noticed my '23 has over 1,042,000 miles on it!? I seem to recall reading about that in another thread somewhere. Does that mean they won't honor my free oil changes anymore? ;-)

 

[TinsleyC]

I read the T&C's of this and Hyundai/Genesis says they anonymize and aggregate the data before sending it on. It's not supposed to tie the data to a particular person or car. However, if you sign up for a service for reduced insurance rates your carrier, and they offer you better rates for being a safer driver due to data they get from your car, then we know they ARE sending your data to your insurance carrier.

Hyundai/Genesis may have changed their policy. I used their system to see how my driving rated for a few months, then turned it off. If they are still sending my data on anyway, it better be anonymous and aggregated.

 

[Volfy]

Regardless of how Genesis choses to interpret what "anonymous and aggregated" means, I plain don't like the fact that the car mfr is collecting data sent from my car. Driving behavior is one thing, but I doubt that is all they collect and monetize. GPS location data is in there too. Our 3yr complimentary Connected Service will be over in a few months. Frankly, I don't trust them not to continue sending data from my car and collecting them after that. I've read mentions of an option in the infotainment menu to disable the modem, but I could not find it in any of our Stingers/G70. I think about the only sure way is to disconnect the modem antenna lead. I might just do that to be sure.