Invoice Prices for 2015 Genesis for reference

[jcox12]

Care to share which Houston dealers to avoid at all costs?

Lol Ron Carter is one that is gouging. Hey gurl confirmed that one. 4100 over msrp. Hub hyundai/mitsubishi is the one that's email alias is moneymaker lol still going through the others. South loop hyundai and sterling McCall seem to be legit. jury still out on humble hyundai and Baytown hyundai as well as North freeway hyundai

 

[TOMMYJR9]

Dealers add stuff to the cars like pin stripe nitro fill etc etc to raise the starting price of the car. The dealers add a lot of costs to each car . Let me give you a example in simple terms. Let say the MSRP is 50,000 and the invoice is let's say 45,000 you would think that there is a 5000 mark up correct ? NO WAY NO WAY!! So let me explain out of that $5000 mark up the dealer has to pay for lights water insurance lot porters detail guys receptionist coffee cable TV shuttle drivers do I need to say more. Then the dealer has a " PACK " on ALL THE CARS NEW OR USED. The next time you speak to a salesman or sales manager look him or her in the face and say "so how much is your pack on these cars " ?then look at their expression. After the dealer adds all of these costs and fees then the sales person gets paid. Most sales people only get paid $100-$200 per sale considering it may take them 2 3 4 hours to sell a car are they really getting paid well? I don't care what you say if the dealerships were to come out with one set pricing nobody would believe them anyway customers want to negotiate .customer says give me your best price the dealership does the customer still goes and shops them guys I've been in the car business over 22 years from salesman to lease retention manager to special finance manager the finance director what I'm telling you is true.

 

[Mark_888]

Dealers add stuff to the cars like pin stripe nitro fill etc etc to raise the starting price of the car. The dealers add a lot of costs to each car . Let me give you a example in simple terms. Let say the MSRP is 50,000 and the invoice is let's say 45,000 you would think that there is a 5000 mark up correct ? NO WAY NO WAY!! So let me explain out of that $5000 mark up the dealer has to pay for lights water insurance lot porters detail guys receptionist coffee cable TV shuttle drivers do I need to say more. Then the dealer has a " PACK " on ALL THE CARS NEW OR USED. The next time you speak to a salesman or sales manager look him or her in the face and say "so how much is your pack on these cars " ?then look at their expression. After the dealer adds all of these costs and fees then the sales person gets paid. Most sales people only get paid $100-$200 per sale considering it may take them 2 3 4 hours to sell a car are they really getting paid well? I don't care what you say if the dealerships were to come out with one set pricing nobody would believe them anyway customers want to negotiate .customer says give me your best price the dealership does the customer still goes and shops them guys I've been in the car business over 22 years from salesman to lease retention manager to special finance manager the finance director what I'm telling you is true.

A little bit if what you say is true, but you left out the following:

• Dealer gets 3% of MSRP holdback from Hyundai Motor America after the sale.
• Many (not all) car sales people seem to lie a lot, which is why people don't like them.
• Everyone tries to get the best deal on everything they buy, including car sales people when they shop at other businesses.

 

[HEY GURL]

Lol Ron Carter is one that is gouging. Hey gurl confirmed that one. 4100 over msrp. Hub hyundai/mitsubishi is the one that's email alias is moneymaker lol still going through the others. South loop hyundai and sterling McCall seem to be legit. jury still out on humble hyundai and Baytown hyundai as well as North freeway hyundai

Navy Federal credit union referred me to Sterlng McCall. So I called and the guys I spoke to was very forthcoming. He said they are not discounting any 2015's at the moment. (maybe in a couple months) He also said they do NOT add pinstriping or charge a ridiculous $200 for nitrogen.....ike the competition. In fact, he said he normally throws in nitrogen for the car buyer. I appreciated him being up front. I told him I would certainly call him back in a couple months to see where the prices are.

 

[TOMMYJR9]

Mark , what the public does not understand all of these extra % here or there is at such a high corporate level even the general mgr of the dealership does not know about or get paid from this . The car business is simple it hasn't changed in 20 years you have the sale price minus your cost minus whatever extras pinstriping formats window tinting and then whatever pack there is plus whatever other expenses whatever is left then the salesman gets paid approximately 20 to 25% of that it's usually 100 or $200 by the time it's done.

 

[TOMMYJR9]

See you guys have to understand and you are looking through the eyes of the consumer not looking through the eyes of the person working at the dealership sometimes will tell a customer we are making 100 or $200 on you and they cringe shoot my cell phone that was more than that a month and the customer gets all insulted ,are you kidding me. There's a term in the car business we called Net to gross that means how much of the dollar do you keep versus how much profit you grossed the net to gross most dealership is about 12% that means the dealership keeps $12 on every hundred dollars FACT

 

[Mark_888]

Mark , what the public does not understand all of these extra % here or there is at such a high corporate level even the general mgr of the dealership does not know about or get paid from this . The car business is simple it hasn't changed in 20 years you have the sale price minus your cost minus whatever extras pinstriping formats window tinting and then whatever pack there is plus whatever other expenses whatever is left then the salesman gets paid approximately 20 to 25% of that it's usually 100 or $200 by the time it's done.

I understand that salespeople often don't get paid a lot of money. I don't think being a car salesperson requires any education, and there are a lot of other people who can do it (especially at dealers where the sales manager pretty much runs things). My recommendation to young people is to stay in school and study hard, or learn a skill or trade that not everyone can do well. In the age of the internet, a salesperson is fast becoming an obsolete job.

 

[Motegi]

TOMMY,

Thanks for your input from the dealers perspective. Still doesn't make the $5000 over MSRP dealer added pinstripes and nitrogen any more palatable.

I could see a dealers desire to start at an even higher price point for negotiation but at least they could add some things that would justify the cost such as wheels, spoilers, sunroof visor, all season floor mats, aero package, etc. Not the bogus "paint protector" and "undercarriage treatment".

Because of your experience, I do have a question for you though... Some dealers seem to offer trade in allowances very close to NADA or KBB trade pricing. Others are low by THOUSANDS. And I've never had anyone offer more than NADA. Why such the variation? All of them say that even if the car is pristine they wouldn't offer any more than the "average" condition price rather than "clean" or "good". Technically NADA and KBB trade figures are supposedly based on ACTUAL trade prices for each region so this doesn't seem to add up. So how does a customer approach this discrepancy?

 

[Mark_888]

See you guys have to understand and you are looking through the eyes of the consumer not looking through the eyes of the person working at the dealership sometimes will tell a customer we are making 100 or $200 on you and they cringe shoot my cell phone that was more than that a month and the customer gets all insulted ,are you kidding me. There's a term in the car business we called Net to gross that means how much of the dollar do you keep versus how much profit you grossed the net to gross most dealership is about 12% that means the dealership keeps $12 on every hundred dollars FACT

So if a car salesperson shops for something at a store, and the price is negotiable by tradition (car dealers started this, not consumers), then do you think that they care at all about how much money the other salesperson makes when they purchase something?

 

[TOMMYJR9]

Okay that's a tricky one but I'll try to explain depending on how much markup and rebates there are you can show a certain amount of dollars doesn't mean you're actually getting it example 50k minus 45k nets you 5k correct ? Then they appraise your car for 2k correct but you want 3k so going from the 5 k mark up then " overall owing " 1k & " showing you the 3k trade value they went from 5k profit down to a 4 k profit because they gave you the extra 1k got it ? BTW the avg car sales person works 50-65 hrs a week.

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[TOMMYJR9]

No one does mark but a salesperson who works at a Hyundai dlr & works for 50-65 hrs a week and makes 40-65k a year . The issue is the consumer thinks car dealers are such a rip off the really not there are so many other businesses that makes so much more profit and percentage of profit them the car dealer.

 

[Mark_888]

Still doesn't make the $5000 over MSRP dealer added pinstripes and nitrogen any more palatable.

Here is my take on this:

A $5,000 markup over MSRP is a gross dealer profit (before administrative and selling expenses) of about $9,500 for a $50,000 Genesis:

• $3,000 markup over invoice
• $1,500 holdback (3%)
• $5,000 market adjustment

This is obviously obscene, especially for a Hyundai which typically sells for close to invoice price or better (even when Hyundai is not offering special discounts).

However, I think this will only last a few months, and if a dealer can get some people to pay that much because a customer lacks self-control and has to have it right away, then I figure that the more a dealer makes off these people the lower they can sell a car to me for later on.

 

[TOMMYJR9]

The car business is changing back in 1997 when I was at the Toyota dealership the Land Cruiser went for about $52,000 that was a $9000 mark up now on the $55,000 Genesis this only approximate 4000 5000 of mark up the car businesses has changed the markups in the cars are not what they used to be the manufacturer keeps the MSRP similarly the same year after year but they keep on raising the cost

 

[TOMMYJR9]

Mark forget about the 3% markup that has nothing to do at the dealership level sales manager salesman general manager get nothing of that money that's all a corporate or dealer principal thing second the additional markup 5000 over sticker is just trying to catch somebody who's willing to pay wouldn't you if you were selling a house for 300,000 and somebody was willing to pay you 310000 . Mark what kind of business background or career background to you have?

 

[Mark_888]

No one does mark but a salesperson who works at a Hyundai dlr & works for 50-65 hrs a week and makes 40-65k a year . The issue is the consumer thinks car dealers are such a rip off the really not there are so many other businesses that makes so much more profit and percentage of profit them the car dealer.

Like I said, if a car salesperson doesn't like their job or it doesn't pay enough, then they look for job elsewhere. It's not just that consumers think dealers and car salespersons are rip-offs, it's that they lie so much, and play those dirty tricks like keeping the key to your trade-in so you can't leave the dealership. And if you go to a dealer not knowing what kind of discount is normal (and reasonable for a dealership to make good money) for a particular car, they will rip you off and steal you blind.

 

[TOMMYJR9]

Hello Mark it's just trying to maximize the profit and the commission just like any other business there's an opportunity somebody will try to take it.

 

[TOMMYJR9]

Okay how can you justify a lawyer or an attorney charging $700 an hour or going to a jewelry store and is it two or 300% markup why is that acceptable but dealership only netting 12 to 15% on the dollar is not tell me that

 

[Mark_888]

Okay how can you justify a lawyer or an attorney charging $700 an hour or going to a jewelry store and is it two or 300% markup why is that acceptable but dealership only netting 12 to 15% on the dollar is not tell me that

I would never pay a lawyer $700 an hour unless I was rich and committed a felony. Most of the lawyers I know are just getting by trying to scratch out a living doing divorces and wills, etc and they always complain that many clients do not pay their fees when billed. Any idiot can do a will online for free or a small fee, unless they have a very complicated situation.

I don't buy jewelry at 300% markup. A few months ago I bought a $525 MSRP watch for $300 on Amazon. The internet has changed everything, and people had better learn to adjust if they want to survive. Salespeople are being replaced by point and click.

 

[TOMMYJR9]

I guarantee you somewhere somehow you've paid more than 300% markup you just don't realize it. What is your business background what type of work do you do it used to do

 

[Mark_888]

I guarantee you somewhere somehow you've paid more than 300% markup you just don't realize it. What is your business background what type of work do you do it used to do

Only thing I can think of is medical services and/or products, which admittedly is a rip-off in many cases. But I have employer subsidized insurance, so it doesn't affect me as much as it could.

I don't which to discuss personal things about myself on this forum.