Invoice Prices for 2015 Genesis for reference

[TOMMYJR9]

I bet you paid A BIG MARK UP ON CLOTHING. I don't care where you shop there several hundred percent markup on all clothing sorry to tell you the truth about this. I hope you will be able to sleep tonight.

 

[Mark_888]

I bet you paid A BIG MARK UP ON CLOTHING. I don't care where you shop there several hundred percent markup on all clothing sorry to tell you the truth about this. I hope you will be able to sleep tonight.

I usually buy clothing on sale, and usually on the internet (from major dept stores). There is not a 300% markup between retailer and customer for clothing. You must be including the entire supply chain.

 

[TOMMYJR9]

Are you ever wrong ?

 

[TOMMYJR9]

And how do you know there's not a 300% markup Mark you don't know everything about everything sorry

 

[calbear88]

There are many cases where prices on things we purchase change depending on supply and demand. For example, hotels may charge a higher room rate on high demand holidays, and a house in a high-demand neighborhood may sell for well above listing price due to a limited supply and high demand in the area. We seem to accept the fact our housing and hotel rates vary depending on supply and demand, but there are other things we purchase where we expect the retailer to charge a fair markup, rather than charge as much as they can get away with. For example, we don't see markups over MSRP on gaming consults, electronics, or grocery store items based on supply and demand, if if there was, there would be a lot of consumer outrage.

I'm not sure how to approach automobiles. I think most people expect to get a fair price, and we all wish we didn't have to deal with pricing shenanigans, but we accept it as the nature of the beast. If a dealer is honest with me, I think I can forgive "market adjustment" pricing. My dealer asked for $2000 over MSRP, and wasn't willing to negotiate. The sales manager told me that they only have 1-2 cars coming in the next week, and they are confident they can sell the car at their asking price without needing to discount it. The sales manager was honest with me, and I can't blame them for trying to maximize profit.

As long as the consumer knows they are paying more for the privilege of being an early adopter, and enters into the transaction with full disclosure about what they are doing, then it is a fair business transaction. I do wish dealers would show consumers the same respect that other retailers of consumer goods do, and just charge MSRP though. These price markups just reinforce the notion that dealers are not to be trusted and out to fleece the consumer.

 

[Mark_888]

There are many cases where prices on things we purchase change depending on supply and demand. For example, hotels may charge a higher room rate on high demand holidays, and a house in a high-demand neighborhood may sell for well above listing price due to a limited supply and high demand in the area.

First, there is a big difference between a hotel room (or airline seat) and selling a house. Once a date goes by (or the aircraft takes off) they cannot ever get any revenue for that empty room or seat. The economics of the hotel business and airline business is not based on 100% occupancy the vast majority of the time.

As I mentioned above, I have no problem if a car salesman wants to negotiate the price of a car, and sometimes sell it for a higher price than at other times (or even at different prices to different people at the same time). But by the same token, consumers have the right to shop around and get the best deal they can for their car purchase. This forum is largely a community of Genesis owners, which means we are buyers of cars, and it is not surprising that we try and help each other get the best deal possible.

 

[Mark_888]

And how do you know there's not a 300% markup Mark you don't know everything about everything sorry

You are right. Some things I have bought probably had a 300% markup, like a candy bar. I don't know the wholesale cost of everything, but I usually have a pretty good idea about the expensive things that I buy. No car dealer ever came close to losing money on a deal when I bought a car (or had a trade-in), so I don't know why you are picking on me.

 

[James2014]

I've been reading this exchange and decided to give my two cents but promise my 2 cents aren't gonna rip you off.

I'm not a young man and have been buying cars for a long time. Before we/I became educated we/I were ripped off big time by the dealers. It went all the way back to the US factories in Detroit, where we/I paid $20,000. for a $9000. car. We paid for great salaries and benefits which are now gone because they bankrupted cities and towns with the unions high wages and bennies.
So now we're a lot smarter because we have the internet where we can communicate with each other and share information.
We know what a car supposed to cost and what the dealer is making off us.
If they had a fair price, non negotiable, where everyone paid the same without this wheeling and dealing where I buy a new Genesis today and someone else buys the same exact car 2 weeks later for $1500 to $2000 less.

Now I know there are a lot of you who disagree with me, especially about unions, salaries and people are supposed to make a living. Save your flaming and just give me your own opinion on the topics.
A guy or girl selling cars isn't, in my opinion exactly a highly trained career needing a sheepskin or two so making 40k to 60k here in Florida is a very, very good salary. Too good I say for selling cars. If fact a good salesman is rated as good by how much he can squeeze an ignorant person. That's the bottom line.
Why do you think new and used car salesmen aren't exactly high up on the public honesty meter?

 

[ksoze]

The car business is changing and car dealerships have not evolved as fast. The internet killed the mystical part of the businesses pricing and the car salesman as an important part of the transaction has diminished. Most dealerships count on service revenue for profit and the actual car selling process is now a link in that chain. With less margin due mainly to more informed consumers, the car floor sales job has become the old copier sales job - a low, entry rung in the sales profession. Not knocking them as many are hard working people trying to make a living, but they are becoming a redundant and less needed part of buying a car as consumers change their shopping due to the internet.

 

[Midnightsun]

I've been reading this exchange and decided to give my two cents but promise my 2 cents aren't gonna rip you off.

I'm not a young man and have been buying cars for a long time. Before we/I became educated we/I were ripped off big time by the dealers. It went all the way back to the US factories in Detroit, where we/I paid $20,000. for a $9000. car. We paid for great salaries and benefits which are now gone because they bankrupted cities and towns with the unions high wages and bennies.
So now we're a lot smarter because we have the internet where we can communicate with each other and share information.
We know what a car supposed to cost and what the dealer is making off us.
If they had a fair price, non negotiable, where everyone paid the same without this wheeling and dealing where I buy a new Genesis today and someone else buys the same exact car 2 weeks later for $1500 to $2000 less.

Now I know there are a lot of you who disagree with me, especially about unions, salaries and people are supposed to make a living. Save your flaming and just give me your own opinion on the topics.
A guy or girl selling cars isn't, in my opinion exactly a highly trained career needing a sheepskin or two so making 40k to 60k here in Florida is a very, very good salary. Too good I say for selling cars. If fact a good salesman is rated as good by how much he can squeeze an ignorant person. That's the bottom line.
Why do you think new and used car salesmen aren't exactly high up on the public honesty meter?

Saturn tried this but failed miserably. People want to negotiate however I do it differently as I buy my cars and trade them in. This way I leave the negotiating up to them. I simply bring in my old car, (usually 3 years old) and inform them to give me their best deal as I will be visiting several dealers and they do not get a second chance at adjusting the price. I love it. You will not believe the differences I have seen. Over $6000 between dealerships in one case when I traded in my Nissan Murano for a Hyundai Veracruise several years ago.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[TOMMYJR9]

Okay to answer a few questions at one time . All I'm trying to have you understand is the car business is no different than any other business. A car salesman they make between 40 and 65,000 a year but considering how many hours they have to work it's a very underpaying job. And the dealership does disclose the extra pricing that's why they put on the window sticker adjusted market value. They've even told her that charging you over sticker price. How much more upfront and honest can you be. The problem is some people don't except or like the truth they wanted their way and that's not reality. Again the car business is no different than any other business and it's been the same way since the beginning of time it's all negotiation supply and demand and perception simple as that at Christmas time you pay a premium for a toy holidays you pay a premium for a hotel room the housing market pays the premiums. Was it okay to pay sticker price for a Bentley Ferrari or Lamborghini or over ? And Mark I'm not picking on you actually like you you seem as a very educated well-informed person but you're very stuck in your opinion but again it's an opinion I am talking facts because I've lived it for the last 20+ years of my life. I have work at a dealership that sold 70 to 80 cars a month and I've worked at a dealership that sold approximately 800to 900 cars a month. Believe me there are SO MANY THINGS I DONT KNOW ABOUT . But cars I do know about.

 

[ksoze]

Again the car business is no different than any other business and it's been the same way since the beginning of time...

Therein lies the rub. While most other businesses have evolved, the car selling business is essentially the same as it was a century ago, plaid jacket notwithstanding. The automobile dealers have strong lobbying which forces the car manufacturers to keep them in the transaction loop. Early internet direct sales channels were attacked by the dealers and they have managed to keep themselves wedged between the consumer and the car builder. Truth is, the worse part of buying a car for most is the dealer selling experience and it is rigged to continue that way while almost all other consumer businesses have embraced the internet and adjusted with the times.

Tesla tried and the recent blockade in New Jersey exposed the ugly side of this business and how deep the dealer lobby is in politics.

 

[TOMMYJR9]

I will tell you is the car business is constantly changing towards being more consumer friendly and that's a being driven by the manufacturer this is a fact. More of that upfront pure pricing philosophy I'm 100% sure within the next 10 years it will be that way it just takes time

 

[Mark_888]

And Mark I'm not picking on you actually like you you seem as a very educated well-informed person but you're very stuck in your opinion but again it's an opinion I am talking facts because I've lived it for the last 20+ years of my life.

What opinion do you think I am stuck on? I already said that if a dealership charges over MSRP that is there is right to do so, but I have a right to enumerate how much gross profit (not including selling and admin expenses) they are making.

As to whether car sales people make a fair wage, I am sure that a lot of others work just as hard and make less (such as teachers). People would have more sympathy for car salespeople if they didn't do deceitful things like pretend to misplace the keys to your trade-in when you want to leave the lot without buying something (and all the other BS).

 

[TOMMYJR9]

Ok

 

[Motegi]

What opinion do you think I am stuck on? I already said that if a dealership charges over MSRP that is there is right to do so, but I have a right to enumerate how much gross profit (not including selling and admin expenses) they are making.

As to whether car sales people make a fair wage, I am sure that a lot of others work just as hard and make less (such as teachers). People would have more sympathy for car salespeople if they didn't do deceitful things like pretend to misplace the keys to your trade-in when you want to leave the lot without buying something (and all the other BS).

Exactly. A dealer tried to pull the key trick on us just last week.

Also had two dealers lowball our trade at 60% or less of NADA trade value. Hours after we walked out they each called back to say that they "made a mistake" and begged us to come back. Shady.

 

[TOMMYJR9]

Okay here we go again the dealership has to own the vehicle including all services ,fees ,parts ,service bill ,etc. etc. for NADA clean trade-in. You folks really don't understand the car business as far as the retail side of it .lets say NADA clean trade-in is $10,000 but the car needs servicing works brakes tires etc. etc. they have to give you much less than that because they have to accrue for servicing of the vehicles plus pack plus all of the things that are associated with running a dealership by the time the done they have to try to own the vehicle for around that NADA clean trade-in price. PERIOD. The lenders will only loan so much for the vehicle. And what you folks have to understand also is the sales department is the biggest customer for parts and service even under under the same building their separate entities the sales department generates the most amount of revenue and income for the service department we pay more to get a car fixed then the average customer does

 

[TOMMYJR9]

You people really make me laugh I'm in the business for such a long time and I'm telling you facts and a set of embracing the facts and getting an inside view and a view of the other side of the table you're debating with me go figure .that's like me debating you about your career and your business that you been doing for many many many years you would be laughing at me also. That's like me debating a surgeon was been doing surgery for 20 years or police man that's been in law enforcement officer for 20 years or diamond cutter was been cutting diamonds for 20 something years telling them how to do their job and how it works LOL

 

[Mark_888]

You people really make me laugh I'm in the business for such a long time and I'm telling you facts and a set of embracing the facts and getting an inside view and a view of the other side of the table you're debating with me go figure .that's like me debating you about your career and your business that you been doing for many many many years you would be laughing at me also. That's like me debating a surgeon was been doing surgery for 20 years or police man that's been in law enforcement officer for 20 years or diamond cutter was been cutting diamonds for 20 something years telling them how to do their job and how it works LOL

I think one difference is that everyone on this forum has purchased a car before, and many of us have purchased many cars and dealt with many car salespeople over the years, so we know the kind of stuff they do.

 

[Mark_888]

Okay here we go again the dealership has to own the vehicle including all services ,fees ,parts ,service bill ,etc. etc. for NADA clean trade-in. You folks really don't understand the car business as far as the retail side of it .lets say NADA clean trade-in is $10,000 but the car needs servicing works brakes tires etc. etc. they have to give you much less than that because they have to accrue for servicing of the vehicles plus pack plus all of the things that are associated with running a dealership by the time the done they have to try to own the vehicle for around that NADA clean trade-in price. PERIOD. The lenders will only loan so much for the vehicle. And what you folks have to understand also is the sales department is the biggest customer for parts and service even under under the same building their separate entities the sales department generates the most amount of revenue and income for the service department we pay more to get a car fixed then the average customer does

Sorry, that is not exactly accurate. The NADA wholesale price (which is what a customer would be offered for a trade-in) is thousands lower than the retail price they will sell the used car for, and has enough margin to do any servicing that is necessary. I don't think anyone is complaining about being offered wholesale price (based on condition of the car and taking into account need for tires, brakes, etc) for their trade-in, but when they are offered less than wholesale then that gets a bit shady. But they do have the right to pay whatever they want, or else the customer can do business elsewhere.