It's early, but your thoughts on the 2015 Genesis?

[Mark_888]

This makes perfect sense when the alternatives you might buy are currently already out and you might buy them now if you only knew whether the Gen had certain features at a certain price. It also makes sense if you have thousands of dollars allocated for a vehicle purchase burning a hole in your pocket for months for a vehicle you might not even end up wanting depending on those decisions. Besides, why be on the forum and discuss the future vehicle at all if you don't want to know? Just wait for the major auto mag reviews in March or April and go total blackout until then.

With production being so close I don't believe they haven't decided on features yet. They would have to have individual parts ready or at least being built by now to start production in Feb. They're not going to start production and then decide they need to order or assemble 10's of thousands of units for some feature imo.

I don't think they have decided on the V8 AWD yet, or exactly what options it will have. Regarding the other trim levels, you are correct that they probably have decided on the options for those, and there is published list from a Hyundai website. But they can always make changes mid-year (as they have done in the past). But I would assume one of the most important things is the price, which even if they have decided, they are not going to release that info yet.

Generally, automakers don't release all the details until availability date is very close or arrived. In this case Hyundai wanted to show it at the Detroit Auto Show, and probably had to present it without all the details finalized. I think they really were hoping they would get another Car of the Year award.

If you are planning on buying a 2015 Genesis as soon as it arrives, you won't have to worry about that money burning a hole in your pocket. I think people are gong to be very disappointed in the lack of discounting of the 2015 Genesis during the first six months or so. The 2013/2014 models are going to be a steal.

 

[Mark_888]

The only good thing I know concerning the horrible depreciation is the great price for a used one. If I took the price I paid for my '12 and added a Hyundai extended premium warranty for a 100k miles b-b it would still be less than a '12 Avalon + it's a much nicer car. Now if I could find that warranty for a good price.

I am not sure if you are actually shopping for a warranty. But if you are, I would contact Hilton Head Hyundai (SC) parts department. They operate a website to sell OEM parts, and they may also sell the warranty.

 

[ksoze]

I am also a tad suspect about a true "performance model" anytime soon if they are just now asking if we would want one.

It took decades for BMW and MB to drive their Motorsports experience into consumer cars through their M and AMG brands. The current R-Spec is a "performance" model in cosmetics only and if one expects more than maybe a possible HP bounce or stiffer suspension as a performance model, I suspect it is not there yet and will take a commitment from Hyundai that may take years to fully develop. I think "performance" model will mean some cosmetics and maybe a HP increase, which on a car that heavy and large will need more to truly wear a performance moniker to compete with the target cars.

 

[tompass]

Mark 888
Are you saying that the 5.0 AWD is not a production model for release in USA or there are no plans for same at this point? As I pointed out previously, the Hyundai Canada site clearly states that both 3. 8 and 5.0 will come standard with AWD. Your thoughts?

 

[YEH]

YEH has posted photographs elsewhere in this forum (that appear to have been taken with a cell phone) that showed slides during a confidential presentation to people inside Hyundai (regarding Average Transaction Prices and other marketing data). The slides had Hyundai logos on them. YEH has some connection to Hyundai or the automotive industry that he not revealing, and which he continuously denies.

LMAO!!

You really are good at spreading nonsense, not to mention continually making ad hominem attacks (simply b/c I had taken issue w/ some things you had posted).

Those images I had posted were taken from autospies (key word - spies).

http://www.autospies.com/news/What-...-MOST-By-Hyundai-Definitely-Surprising-58296/

I am also a tad suspect about a true "performance model" anytime soon if they are just now asking if we would want one.

It took decades for BMW and MB to drive their Motorsports experience into consumer cars through their M and AMG brands. The current R-Spec is a "performance" model in cosmetics only and if one expects more than maybe a possible HP bounce or stiffer suspension as a performance model, I suspect it is not there yet and will take a commitment from Hyundai that may take years to fully develop. I think "performance" model will mean some cosmetics and maybe a HP increase, which on a car that heavy and large will need more to truly wear a performance moniker to compete with the target cars.

Hyundai had already worked on a supercharged Tau engine a few years ago but since has turned to twin-turbos.

Other than that, basically would take tweaks to the suspension, steering and some interior changes (like better bolstered front seats); Hyundai will soon be offering N-performance versions of various models in other markets.

Hyundai probably could have a bona-fide performance line Genesis ready by the time the 2G gets its refresh, but it probably is a question whether the market will support such an investment.

Hyundai will probably do it eventually, but they're probably trying to decide whether to do it for the 2G Genesis or wait until the 3G.

 

[YEH]

YEH just makes up B.S all over with no actual facts outside of posting dimensions from Car & Driver. Truly Delusional.




Yup yeh is a known idiot.



This is so full of garbage but typical from this guy. Ask acurazine.

Simply hilarious - considering that all of what you post about him more accurately reflects you.

 

[Mark_888]

You really are good at spreading nonsense, not to mention continually making ad hominem attacks (simply b/c I had taken issue w/ some things you had posted).

Ad hominem attacks? Saying you are a fanboy is not an attack, just exposing a lack of objectivity. I assume there is some reason for the lack of objectively, and I certainly don't hold it against you personally.

 

[YEH]

I agree with you on Hyundai's horrible depreciation. You can't even compare it to a Toyota or Honda for that matter. I don't know how Hyundai can improve this. It has been that way since my first Hyundai Excel back in 1989! I am looking and researching several cars versus Genesis.

I love the new look, but my local dealer (who put swirls on my black gloss paint!!!) would have to give me the deal of the century to get me in one at this point especially after what they just did.

Hyundai has improved upon this greatly, as well as Kia.

ALG's latest residual value rankings.

Mainstream Brand Rankings (based on RVA Segmentation)
1. Honda 5.0 Index Points
2. Toyota 4.7
3. Subaru 4.5
4. Hyundai 3.4
5. Mazda 1.8
6. GMC 1.4
7. Kia 1.2
8. Scion 0.7
9. Nissan -0.8
10. Chevrolet -2
11. Dodge -3.4
12. Volkswagen -3.7
13. Ford -3.8
14. Buick -4.3

Luxury Brand Rankings (based on RVA Segmentation)
1. Mercedes-Benz 2.4 Index Points
2. Acura 1.8
3. Audi 1.7
4. Infiniti 0.9
5. Lexus 0.7
6. Land Rover 0.4
7. BMW -0.4
8. Cadillac -2
9. Volvo -4
10. Lincoln -7.1

https://www.alg.com/press-releases/algs-14th-annual-residual-value-awards/

The only good thing I know concerning the horrible depreciation is the great price for a used one. If I took the price I paid for my '12 and added a Hyundai extended premium warranty for a 100k miles b-b it would still be less than a '12 Avalon + it's a much nicer car. Now if I could find that warranty for a good price.

Remember that residual value is calculated off of MSRP.

So models like the Accent, Elantra, Sonata and Santa Fe (current generation) do quite well in holding their value since Hyundai hasn't been discounting them (expect to see the Camry take a hit on depreciation down the road).

However, the Genesis takes a hit on depreciation (but on par with many other luxury models) since many buyers end up getting a nice discount off of MSRP.

I would expect that the 2G Genesis will do better when it comes to residual value, but the downside to that is the deals on the 2G Genesis won't be as good as they have been for the 1G.

 

[YEH]

Ad hominem attacks? Saying you are a fanboy is not an attack, just exposing a lack of objectivity. I assume there is some reason for the lack of objectively, and I certainly don't hold it against you personally.

Sorry, but you haven't just called me a fanboy, but you have constantly accused me of being an employee of Hyundai or having some other connection to Hyundai.

And as usual, when I call you on such attacks, you conveniently change the topic/issue and ignore the fact that I had made you look a like fool (such as from your post trying to attack me in being a Hyundai employee due to me having posted images that were taken from autospies and not b/c I am some Hyundai insider).

And really, would a so-called fanboy, have posted that the design of the 2G Genesis is a bit underwhelming (where certain other posters took affront to that negative opinion)?

And that's hardly my 1st criticism.

I had posted numerous times that the interiors and the dash designs of the 1G Genesis and Equus were problematic or overly bland and that the materials in numerous areas (such as the silver painted plastic on the center console of the Genesis) were just awful and not worthy of the segment (also posted that while the materials in the 2G Genesis are improved, the dash design is too bland/conservative).

Also posted numerous times that the front end of the refreshed Genesis Coupe is atrocious and that the R-Spec moniker was a mistake for both the coupe and sedan w/ it not bring any extra performance or real handling improvements to the mix.

I have been nothing but objective.

I could go on, but I suspect as usual that you will gloss over/ignore such comments.

Ever since I took issue w/ your comments about the suspension on the 1G Genesis since the refresh, you have taken every opportunity to take shots at me.

And the funny thing is that your commentary about the suspension was based on a review (and not you having driven/experience it for yourself); and yet you would go on and attack auto scribes - even after having relied on one as the basis for your opinion.

 

[Mark_888]

Sorry, but you haven't just called me a fanboy, but you have constantly accused me of being an employee of Hyundai or having some other connection to Hyundai.

I didn't know that being a Hyundai employee or having some indirect connection to Hyundai is accusation of impropriety or a slur against you. If you aren't in any way directly or indirectly connected to Hyundai, and don't really have any inside information, then good for you. But maybe you should always reveal the source of your information, since a lot of people (even those who like to read to your posts) seem to have a very strong suspicion that you do have inside information.

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[YEH]

No sir. Hyundai does not break out numbers for the Genesis Sedan and Coupe. You are so busted.

I know they don't for the US, while they do so for Canada.

Hyundai USA isn't the only source for such info. Duh!

I never stated that I got it from Hyundai USA.

 

[Mark_888]

Ever since I took issue w/ your comments about the suspension on the 1G Genesis since the refresh, you have taken every opportunity to take shots at me.

And the funny thing is that your commentary about the suspension was based on a review (and not you having driven/experience it for yourself); and yet you would go on and attack auto scribes - even after having relied on one as the basis for your opinion.

I don't know what you are talking about. I didn't join this forum until after I had purchased my 2009 Genesis, and any comments I made about the early 2009 suspension were mostly based on my experience, and reinforced by those in the automotive press (including but not limited to the infamous Car and Driver video review of the Genesis).

Considering that I went to the trouble to replace all the suspension parts on my 2009 Genesis (shocks/struts, springs, rear stabilizer) with the 2010/2011 versions of those parts suggests that my comments about the suspension are based on first hand knowledge.

 

[YEH]

I didn't know that being a Hyundai employee or having some indirect connection to Hyundai is accusation of impropriety or a slur against you. If you aren't in any way directly or indirectly connected to Hyundai, and don't really have any inside information, then good for you. But maybe you should always reveal the source of your information, since a lot of people (even those who like to read to your posts) seem to have a very strong suspicion that you do have inside information.

It is b/c -

1. I have denied it numerous times and yet, you continually make the same accusation over and over again, including saying that I am being dishonest by hiding it.

2. You continually try to tie my supposed connection to Hyundai as a rationale for me being biased and hence, someone who can't be trusted.

I mean really - did I just had to explain this to you?

 

[Mark_888]

I know they don't for the US, while they do so for Canada.

Hyundai USA isn't the only source for such info. Duh!

I never stated that I got it from Hyundai USA.

OK, I'll bite. If HMA only publishes total Genesis sales (not broken down by sedan vs coupe), and you didn't get that info from HMA, were did you get the break-down of sedan vs coupe sales in the US market?

 

[Mark_888]

It is b/c -

1. I have denied it numerous times and yet, you continually make the same accusation over and over again, including saying that I am being dishonest by hiding it.

2. You continually try to tie my supposed connection to Hyundai as a rationale for me being biased and hence, someone who can't be trusted.

I mean really - did I just had to explain this to you?

OK, but you appear to have inside information and you obviously like the fact that almost everyone else thinks you have inside information (even those who like your posts). So if you don't have inside information, then it would be best if you reveal were you got the info you post.

 

[YEH]

OK, but you appear to have inside information and you obviously like the fact that almost everyone else thinks you have inside information (even those who like your posts). So if you don't have inside information, then it would be best if you reveal were you got the info you post.

Pretty much everything I had post when it comes to nos. - I usually post the source.

That one image of a slide showing the makeup of Hyundai owners vs. that of Accord, Camry, Altima and Fusion owners had a pretty large autospies watermark.

So - you see what you want to see and don't see/ignore what you don't want to see (which is why you have switched to calling me a fanboy despite my numerous criticisms of the Genesis and Equus where warranted).

Btw, that slide image shows that Sonata owners are as affluent, if not more so than buyers of other popular midsized sedans, so your continued claims that Hyundai buyers can't afford better or that they purchase cheaper, smaller vehicles is off base.

I based my position on actual data - whereas you based yours on unsubstantiated opinion.

As for the no. of Genesis sedans sold in 2012, a google search would have sufficed.

The Genesis, which hit the market first in 2008, sold the most at 22,980 vehicles, followed by the Grandeur with 8,431 and the Equus with 3,972.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20130505000179


Hyundai did sell a total of 3,972 Equus sedans in the US and 8,431 of the Azera/Grandeur in 2012.

But they sold a total of 33,973 of both the coupe and sedan versions of the Genesis so that 22,980 figure must be for the sedan, alone (esp. since it refers to the model having hit the market 1st in 2008).

So again, your claim that the Genesis (sedan) is not selling well in the US is wrong (even at this stage of its life cycle).

 

[drpearso]

Just my humble opinion, but i have never considered the Avalon to be a prem. Lux. Sports Sedan. It's a really soft weak sport performance sedan IMHO. Regards.

 

[drpearso]

I second Tompass.
I also love the look.

I agree also that is look fine. But my buy or do not buy will be based on the seats in the 5.0L --- If they grip with the power side bolsters and also are lower, etc I will buy it. If not then it is ATS, Infinity Q50 sport, or 535i with power bolsters.

I prefer the genesis, so hoping the seats really lock you down. Regards

 

[Mark_888]

Pretty much everything I had post when it comes to nos. - I usually post the source.

That one image of a slide showing the makeup of Hyundai owners vs. that of Accord, Camry, Altima and Fusion owners had a pretty large autospies watermark.

So - you see what you want to see and don't see/ignore what you don't want to see (which is why you have switched to calling me a fanboy despite my numerous criticisms of the Genesis and Equus where warranted).

Btw, that slide image shows that Sonata owners are as affluent, if not more so than buyers of other popular midsized sedans, so your continued claims that Hyundai buyers can't afford better or that they purchase cheaper, smaller vehicles is off base.

I based my position on actual data - whereas you based yours on unsubstantiated opinion.

As for the no. of Genesis sedans sold in 2012, a google search would have sufficed.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20130505000179

Hyundai did sell a total of 3,972 Equus sedans in the US and 8,431 of the Azera/Grandeur in 2012.

But they sold a total of 33,973 of both the coupe and sedan versions of the Genesis so that 22,980 figure must be for the sedan, alone (esp. since it refers to the model having hit the market 1st in 2008).

So again, your claim that the Genesis (sedan) is not selling well in the US is wrong (even at this stage of its life cycle).

As I said before, a lot of people think you have inside information, even those who like your posts. Part of that may be you provide information without sources that no one else seems to have. Also, you have been a member of this forum since August 2008, but apparently don't own a Genesis.

In looking at your claims that the Genesis sedan sold 22,980 units in the US last year, you referenced this quote form the link above:

"The Genesis, which hit the market first in 2008, sold the most at 22,980 vehicles, followed by the Grandeur with 8,431 and the Equus with 3,972."​

It is "possible" you are correct, but since the Grandeur is not sold in the US, how do you know that those are US sales they are talking about? In any case, since Hyundai does not separate out Genesis sedan and coupe sales numbers to the public, it is not absolutely clear how anyone could come to that conclusion, and since you didn't originally explain how you came to that conclusion, it is not unreasonable to think that maybe you do have inside information.

I did mention that recent sales of Genesis sedan has been lower than previous years for the first time in the US. I think that is accurate information, however, those are combined sedan and coupe numbers since HMA does not report them separately.

Here is a quote from the article you provided a link above:

"However, Hyundai is expected to face a bumpy road in continuing its climb in the luxury market as its Japanese and German rivals are upping their efforts in the U.S., where the luxury car market is booming.

While Hyundai saw a slight decrease in its premium sales in the first quarter [of 2013], the Lexus LS sold 72 percent more cars from a year ago. The Audi A8 and the Mercedes-Benz S Class also posted 37.3 percent and 20.2 percent growth, respectively."​

 

[Mark_888]

Just my humble opinion, but i have never considered the Avalon to be a prem. Lux. Sports Sedan. It's a really soft weak sport performance sedan IMHO. Regards.

I would not consider the Avalon to be Luxury car in any sense of the word, and definitely not a sports sedan. However, the new version is much improved, and no longer handles like boat.

I wouldn't think anyone looking at the R-Spec would pay any attention to the Avalon, but some Genesis Base or Premium Package buyers might take a look.