Its Official: 2010 Genesis sedan has revised suspension

[Mark_888]

1. I was not a member before I posted because I had not bought a Genesis, simple as that.
2. I don't have the time to read forums that I do not have a reason to review.
3. After having joined I read all the past posts on the subject so I do feel that I "Know what took place"
4. I asked if you posted on the Think Tank forum because I wanted to know if you were a member of the Think Tank, simple as that.

I am glad that you feel you were instrumental in getting the changes made to the suspension, Thanks you for your attention to the problem.

I am glad you were the first to read the press release and determine that it means changes have been made to the suspension.

I hope you will use your "Connections at high places " to get the problem fixed for us that have it and need it fixed.

I Hope that this post serves to provide appropriate recognition for your efforts,

I feel that it may be as a result of past experiences that some of us are reticent to accept things until we see clear proof.

Lastly, the prettiest girl at the party is usually recognized without her doing anything.

Here is hoping that someday soon all this will be behind us and we will all be posting about how Hyundai stepped up to a problem on their flagship product, fixed it made the great early adopters whole. This will have great word of mouth advertising and have us recommending the car and the company without hesitation. Currently I find it difficult when having to respond to the multitude of inquiries about the car. Hyundai I hope realizes that in early times there are more folks seeing the cars owned by us types than go to showrooms to see them. Lots of folks don't even know what kind of car it is, and the reference from a owner is worth a 1000 times what any dealer could ever say.
Finally I continue to hope that Hyundai will contact us wanting a fix directly.

I think there is some misunderstanding here.

1. Yes, I have been a member of the Hyundai Think Tank from fairly early on. But membership is not just posting on their forum. I participated in a 90 minute on-line chat with John Krafcik (Acting President and Chief Executive Officer of HMA) with about 25 other Hyundai owners (all models) in mid February 2009. I don't recall how I got invited to the chat with Krafcik . I asked a lot of questions about the suspension issue and I took very detailed notes about what he said.

2. I was not instrumental in getting the changes made to the 2010 suspension, since I know the changes were finalized when John Krafcik chated with us in mid February (Krafcik told us during the chat that he personally tested and approved the 2010 Genesis suspension changes). Probably the person most responsible for the suspension changes (IMO) is the former editor of Car and Driver, Csaba Csere, who is a friend of John Krafcik (they hung out together when John Krafcik lived in Detroit at Ford Motor Co). If you see the video review of the Genesis done by Csaba Csere for Car and Driver that has been posted on this forum, you will know why I said that.

3. I did lobby John Krafcik very hard back in February about making the changes available to 2009 owners (under warranty or for a fee). But I don't have any special connections at Hyundai to make that happen.

4. I agree that if the suspension and steering is much better in 2010, then the car will be near perfect and they should be able move a lot of units going forward.

5. But I have also explained that just because Hyundai recognizes that the 2009 suspension needed improvement, does not mean it will definitely be upgraded to 2010 specs under warranty for 2009 owners. There is a difference between a defect and and an item that needs improvement. But if I were advising Hyundai, I would tell them to retrofit the changes for free, or for a reduced cost in order to maintain good will with current owners who trusted Hyundai and helped make the 2009 Genesis a success.

6. Some amount of patience is needed on this matter until the 2010 model has been completely rolled out and Hyundai decides what to do about possibly upgrading the suspension for 2009 owners.

 

[dataguy]

Thanks, Mark. That does give more context and is balanced. I'm maybe even taken aback because I haven't seen a whole lot of balance on this particular issue in general.

 

[GripperDon]

Enough said.

Ditto Ditto

 

[Mark_888]

Finally, as much as I think you're right about Mark_888 highlighting an important issue, I would hope that people would not take anything that he or anyone else says here with blind trust. Saying that one heard something from an unnamed HMA executive, or even citing Think Tank (which provided a materially inaccurate schedule of the Equus tour) isn't the same as the actual result. For all we know, the suspension changes will have no impact or make things worse.

I think the reaction has a lot to do with how many times and in how many threads he's cited the same insider information. To me, this thread seems to be more of an "I told you so" than anything else. Maybe it's vindication, but the reaction should be expected.

I never asked anyone to take anything I said with blind trust. But I did not expect to be called a liar and try to get me booted from the forum. Several others with less fortitude than me basically quit the forum because of the harassment by those who claimed there was no suspension problem.

Until now (as Hyundai has now officially acknowledged that the 2010 suspension has been revised) I was hesitant to reveal my exact source for the following reasons:

1. John Krafcik specifically mentioned that what we were being told was confidential and off the record. Given that Krafcik was being candid with Hyundai owners on a lot of subjects, I thought I should respect his gesture at least to the degree of not naming names, so that HMA could have plausible deniability if they were not ready to publicly discuss the 2010 suspension changes until now.

2. Even if I had revealed that John Krafcik was the source, I don't think it would have made any difference since I could not prove that the info came from him. Some people would still have called me a liar.

3. It would not have done any good for someone to confront HMA with the info that John Krafcik gave about the 2010 suspension changes, because they would have denied it until the 2010 model was ready to be announced. Witness the many people who have contacted HMA and the response was alwasys that they didn't know anything about 2010 suspension changes (but they did not categorically deny it either).

4. I repeated the information about the 2010 suspension multiple times because there were new members who obviously had not heard it before. Some people appreciated my efforts and told me so via PM.

5. Since I have not driven a 2010 Genesis, I have not made any guarantees about whether the ride is improved. I have been told by Hyundai that it is still on the firm side (which is OK with me).

 

[dataguy]

I never asked anyone to take anything I said with blind trust. But I did not expect to be called a liar and try to get me booted from the forum. Several others with less fortitude than me basically quit the forum because of the harassment by those who claimed there was no suspension problem.

Until now (as Hyundai has now officially acknowledged that the 2010 suspension has been revised) I was hesitant to reveal my exact source for the following reasons:

1. John Krafcik specifically mentioned that what we were being told was confidential and off the record. Given that Krafcik was being candid with Hyundai owners on a lot of subjects, I thought I should respect his gesture at least to the degree of not naming names, so that HMA could have plausible deniability if they were not ready to publicly discuss the 2010 suspension changes until now.

2. Even if I had revealed that John Krafcik was the source, I don't think it would have made any difference since I could not prove that the info came from him. Some people would still would have called me a liar.

3. It would not have done any good for someone to confront HMA with the info that John Krafcik gave about the 2010 suspension changes, because they would have denied it until the 2010 model was ready to be announced. Witness the many people who have contacted HMA and the response was alwasys that they didn't know anything about 2010 suspension changes (but they did not categorically deny it either).

4. I repeated the information about the 2010 suspension multiple times because there were new members who obviously had not heard it before. Some people appreciated my efforts and told me so via PM.

5. Since I have not driven a 2010 Genesis, I have not made any guarantees about whether the ride is improved. I have been told by Hyundai that it is still on the firm side (which is OK with me).

Hopefully, you saw my post in #22 above.

To be clear, I'm not accusing you of anything. Like I said, there seems to be people on both sides who are pretty set in their ways and unable to consider that maybe they're not right (or perhaps that the issue is more complicated). Having been through many of these ideological battles before many times in many places, it annoys me to see people take such things so personally. I would have made the same comment for anyone in a similar vein regardless of who they were or what issue they happened to be talking about.

Certainly, I don't think anything I said was particularly pointed or warranted a numbered rebuttal.

 

[doug725]

It's going to interesting to drive a 2010 and see how it differs from my former 2009. I'd still love to own this car (again) someday.

 

[Mark_888]

Hopefully, you saw my post in #22 above.

To be clear, I'm not accusing you of anything. Like I said, there seems to be people on both sides who are pretty set in their ways and unable to consider that maybe they're not right (or perhaps that the issue is more complicated). Having been through many of these ideological battles before many times in many places, it annoys me to see people take such things so personally. I would have made the same comment for anyone in a similar vein regardless of who they were or what issue they happened to be talking about.

Certainly, I don't think anything I said was particularly pointed or warranted a numbered rebuttal.

I am sorry if you took my post too personally. The contentious discussions I referred to for the most part occurred many months ago and most of the egregious posts (and my responses) were deleted by the forum admins.

My "numbered response" above is not entirely in response to what you posted, but also clarification of a long history concerning this subject that happened before you became a member of this forum. There are a lot of people who wanted me to reveal exactly where I got my info, and until recently I refused to say for the reasons I tried to explain above.

 

[mongo]

But I will admit one thing, the problem is not quite as bad now as it was when my Genesis was new. I don't know if that is because the tension in the springs and shocks has subsided just a little, or whether it is the warmer weather. I have also lowered the tire pressure to 31 PSI (from recommended 33)

Agreed. My car rides a little better now than when it was new. One more dead body in the trunk and that should pad the weight just enough to make it as smooth as my old Jag.

 

[ctrcbob]

It's going to interesting to drive a 2010 and see how it differs from my former 2009. I'd still love to own this car (again) someday.

Doug,

How is that Milan of yours doing?

 

[Mark_888]

Thanks to kaberle in another thread, it has come to my attention that HMA has changed the above mentioned link today (in the first post above) so that there no mention anymore of a suspension change for 2010.

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[GripperDon]

Said the funny man in the comedy tv show "Very Inter-resting"

 

[genesis 45]

Ok all......i e-mailed a customer affairs manager yesterday about the update and she did e-mail back within two hours.....here is the message i got....." there will not be a retro-fit or a kit for the 2009 genesis sedan. We expect the 2010 models to be at dealerships in early oct...you may want to test drive it and see what u think.....while i understand you are not happy with the comfort of the ride, we have heard from many other genesis owners that are completly satisfied with thier genesis"

 

[genesis 45]

I called another rep to day and asked him what the difference was between the 2009 and 2010 and he look at his reference material and told me the shocks and springs look to be identical fro last year...he did say they did replace the anti roll bars with at stabalyzer bars instead......he also mentioned the a new electro hydrolic power steering system ........

 

[Mark_888]

The two emails you quoted have contradictory information, although the second didn't actually deny any suspension changes (only denied knowledge of them and used words like "appears"). The first email pretty much admits that there are suspension changes, but says there will be no retrofit kit. Not sure what that means, since obviously the 2010 springs and shock parts will be available. But HMA is probably trying make sure it is not going to be a warranty or TSB item.

It is obvious from today's change of the website describing the 2010 Genesis (removing the yesterdays mention of suspension changes) that HMA has decided to (at least for the time being) not discuss the changes or to deny knowledge of them (which is not the same as a categorical denial). At this point, only a donkey would believe that suspension is not being changed.

 

[doug725]

Doug,

How is that Milan of yours doing?

So far so good - not a single problem.

 

[genesis 45]

Well i emailed the frist manager back and asked her if i would be able to put any of the new suspension parts on my 2009. I aid it would be at my cost of course..............she got abck t me and said " i will double check, but i think they are completely different"......nothing back yet..........these hyundai employee work here in fountain valley ca.........we shall see soon......

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Unfortunately, they're going to learn the hard way that simply deleting something from the internet doesn't mean it never happened...

Where's that link we're discussing?

 

[Mark_888]

Unfortunately, they're going to learn the hard way that simply deleting something from the internet doesn't mean it never happened...

Where's that link we're discussing?

http://hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/2010_Models/Genesis/Press_Release.asp

The above link is in the first post of this thread. I quoted part of the link, but they removed the first sentence from the section I quoted.

The link originally said:

Attached to the 2010 Genesis’ rigid structure is revised suspension and steering tuning to keep the Genesis even flatter through turns and more compliant over bumps. Genesis features a suspension design that is among the most sophisticated and refined anywhere, at any price. The front five-link suspension features upper and lower arms linking the front wheels to the chassis. This artfully articulated arrangement creates a virtual king pin axis that dramatically reduces unwanted kickback through the steering wheel as well as improving responsiveness. The five-link independent rear suspension is equally sophisticated, enabling precise suspension geometry for a premium ride and engaging handling prowess. The capabilities of the advanced front and rear-suspension are maximized through Amplitude Selective Dampers (ASD) allowing tuning flexibility at smaller damper displacements. The ASD suspension provides:

• Improved ride comfort with more body / wheel control
• Increased driving comfort without compromised handling
• Optimized road surface contact
• Technology used in Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz models

But now it says:

Genesis features a suspension design that is among the most sophisticated and refined anywhere, at any price. The front five-link suspension features upper and lower arms linking the front wheels to the chassis. This artfully articulated arrangement creates a virtual king pin axis that dramatically reduces unwanted kickback through the steering wheel as well as improving responsiveness. The five-link independent rear suspension is equally sophisticated, enabling precise suspension geometry for a premium ride and engaging handling prowess. The capabilities of the advanced front and rear-suspension are maximized through Amplitude Selective Dampers (ASD) allowing tuning flexibility at smaller damper displacements. The ASD suspension provides:

• Improved ride comfort with more body / wheel control
• Increased driving comfort without compromised handling
• Optimized road surface contact
• Technology used in Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz models

 

[kaberle]

Hi Mark....... it's been a while since I have been on here....... I gotta tell ya......... some of your best posts have happened in the past few days.......

about this issue of changing there website news release......... there could be many explanations but the most plausible is that someone at Hyundai found that first sentence to be saying too much.......

Other possible explanations are that the first sentance was incorrect.... or perhaps because it did not say exactly what they meant to say.........

Anyway you look at it there is every possibility that there will be changes to the suspension for 2010......... this in and of itself does not mean there is a major problem with the 2009 suspension...... if that was the case no one would ever improve a product for the sake of improving it......... Like they say in sports even championship teams make changes.........

I continue to have no issues with the ride of my car over bumpy broken up roads......... I don't know if the suspension in my car is different than those who have reported problems but I can say I am still happy with the ride...... maybe my car already has the changes incorporated......... for all we know Hyundai put out a certain number of cars with a differently tuned suspension in order to test which would work better in real world situations and then based on feed back will make revisions to 2010..... Of course they cannot tell people that two identical 2009 Genesis have differently tuned suspensions...... I know this sounds far fetched but it would explain the widely divergent views........ Or perhaps their quality control is so bad they can't make two cars the same.......

 

[Stwood]

Lot of back and forth on this issue. I want to buy and have spent hours on this site. It appears at very least that a stabilizer bar will be added to the Genesis sedans. Do you gurus suggest waiting for the 2010 model before purchasing?