K&N (or other) Intake Air Filters

devellis

Been here awhile...
511
179
43
North Carolina
Genesis Model Type
No Genesis Yet!
I have watched a bunch of Scotty's videos.... I think he's an idiot personally. He just uses this in your face delivery method that the average, every day car owner believes blindly. Most people here are not average, everyday car owners and actually know what they are talking about.

A lot of the comments on that video are people saying that he's an idiot and has no idea what he's talking about and that CAI's that are tuned and calibrated for your specific vehicle will not trip check engine lights and that they're very beneficial. Of all the research I've done on CAI's in the past few days: most sources said that it is beneficial and will help, a couple said it makes no difference at all and only looks and sounds cool, and Scotty's video is the only one I found that says CAI's are bad...


It's a hot topic, to be sure. I've heard automotive engineers in videos also say that simply changing intakes and exhaust doesn't buy you anything. Altering back pressure with a free-flow exhaust, they said, essentially causes changes in the system that would offset any gains. Back before cars had computers monitoring and regulating how a car operates, you could do things like increase air flow, dial in a slightly richer mixture to take advantage of the increased air, and squeeze a bit more power out. Now, the car expects certain parameters to be within factory spec and as they depart from that, the ECU essentially tries to compensate to bring them back to spec.

Is that description 100% correct? I have no idea. I'm not an engineer. The people who've made the argument were generally engineers for the cars they were discussing. On one hand, that may motivate them to discourage any changes. On the other hand, they know their engines really well. I can't recall where I saw the videos that are relevant. If I get a chance, I'll se if I can find them.

I think everyone has to make their own calls. Speed shops, of course, will tell you that every little change will be beneficial. And they may be right if you couple that change with other alterations (like changing the programming) that won't essentially counteract the first change. There are lots of engine additives out there that also claim to increase power. The key phrase in all of these claims is "up to" preceding the listed power increase. And any measurement system will have variation. Power measurements will vary randomly as a function of imperfections in how measurements are made and systematically as a function of the testing conditions. What we often see reported is the peak performance obtained after some mod. But you can be pretty certain that the peak performance is uninformative, as it represents the circumstance where both random and systematic errors in measurement have combined to yield the highest number. regression to the mean is virtually guaranteed to yield lower power in actual use.

For me, none of these mods hold any interest. The more I think about them, the less appeal they have. If dealers offered an alternative exhaust with a more aggressive note, I might go for it. But that would be my limit. But that's just me. Each person can do as they please and should do whatever they like to maximize their enjoyment of the car.
 

Beefer

Getting familiar with the group...
2,399
1,505
113
Richmond, VA
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
Possible... not to be offensive to anybody on here, but I think he's an older guy who has some "aged" notions about engines and cars in general. Modern cars are better and more advanced than what he gives them credit for I believe...
Probably the white stuff.

All I can say is on my G37 Coupe...I had a dual setup by K&N. It totally improved performance. To add...the 2 open intakes were nestled near where the intakes from the outside came in. You open them up. So no hot engine air was going in.

So yeah...pretty over the top crack head. But still makes me wonder.
 

kmooney4

Registered Member
293
81
28
Maryland, USA
Genesis Model Type
No Genesis Yet!
It's a hot topic, to be sure. I've heard automotive engineers in videos also say that simply changing intakes and exhaust doesn't buy you anything. Altering back pressure with a free-flow exhaust, they said, essentially causes changes in the system that would offset any gains. Back before cars had computers monitoring and regulating how a car operates, you could do things like increase air flow, dial in a slightly richer mixture to take advantage of the increased air, and squeeze a bit more power out. Now, the car expects certain parameters to be within factory spec and as they depart from that, the ECU essentially tries to compensate to bring them back to spec.

Is that description 100% correct? I have no idea. I'm not an engineer. The people who've made the argument were generally engineers for the cars they were discussing. On one hand, that may motivate them to discourage any changes. On the other hand, they know their engines really well. I can't recall where I saw the videos that are relevant. If I get a chance, I'll se if I can find them.

I think everyone has to make their own calls. Speed shops, of course, will tell you that every little change will be beneficial. And they may be right if you couple that change with other alterations (like changing the programming) that won't essentially counteract the first change. There are lots of engine additives out there that also claim to increase power. The key phrase in all of these claims is "up to" preceding the listed power increase. And any measurement system will have variation. Power measurements will vary randomly as a function of imperfections in how measurements are made and systematically as a function of the testing conditions. What we often see reported is the peak performance obtained after some mod. But you can be pretty certain that the peak performance is uninformative, as it represents the circumstance where both random and systematic errors in measurement have combined to yield the highest number. regression to the mean is virtually guaranteed to yield lower power in actual use.

For me, none of these mods hold any interest. The more I think about them, the less appeal they have. If dealers offered an alternative exhaust with a more aggressive note, I might go for it. But that would be my limit. But that's just me. Each person can do as they please and should do whatever they like to maximize their enjoyment of the car.
Probably the white stuff.

All I can say is on my G37 Coupe...I had a dual setup by K&N. It totally improved performance. To add...the 2 open intakes were nestled near where the intakes from the outside came in. You open them up. So no hot engine air was going in.

So yeah...pretty over the top crack head. But still makes me wonder.
Will definitely be doing more research before making any additions to the car. Honestly though, this thing is already FAST so even an unmodded engine will still be plenty of power and torque for me. Especially when you couple this information with the fact that these high-performance CAI's are technically not legal in my state, it's starting to look less and less appealing to me.

I'm definitely more interested in a better sounding exhaust such as the one that I posted in one of the other threads...
 

devellis

Been here awhile...
511
179
43
North Carolina
Genesis Model Type
No Genesis Yet!
Well, this isn't one of the vids I'd originally seen but it's pretty informative. And the guys are young and Aussie, for folks who didn't like the crazy old Texan.

 

larrymg1

Registered Member
SUSTAINING MEMBER
697
182
43
Lexington South Carolina
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G80 Sport
Here's another that breaks down performance by rev range. CAI helps at some revs but not at others.

IMO, a 4% gain at high rev range is not overly significant. I, personally, would not consider these mods beneficial unless they could improve performance at a bare minimum of 7-10% across all ranges.
 

Edmguy

Registered Member
459
139
43
Edmonton, Canada
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
I disagree with the crazy guy claiming aftermarket intakes or exhausts are actually bad and "confuse" the computer. His vehicle looked to be 25 years old and maybe that was the problem.

I personally don't think there are noticeable gains to be made from either intakes or exhaust, but if they were actually bad, manufacturers like BMW wouldn't sell you cold air intakes or exhausts that you can install without any tuning of the car. I don't think there is any harm, but people claiming huge gains on an otherwise stock car are also out to lunch.
______________________________
 

kmooney4

Registered Member
293
81
28
Maryland, USA
Genesis Model Type
No Genesis Yet!
The fact that the G70 smoked it in run #2...is that impressive? Seems like they were going balls fast.
Likely because the G70 was AWD so it got off the line quicker and never looked back... that Malibu is probably FWD... That's why the dead start the G70 smoked it, but the rolling start the Malibu won
______________________________
 

canucklehead604

one of the few 6MTs...
404
163
43
West Coast Canada
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
So...what the heck is a Caprice 6.0 full bolts on-70?

^ dang, that looks fun. not sure what distance this race was, but way longer than a 1/4 mile from what i could tell. they must have been hauling past the line.

that Chevy looks like some variant of the large Ausie-based Holden, so i'd guess it is RWD with the big motor. sounded amazing.
 

Beefer

Getting familiar with the group...
2,399
1,505
113
Richmond, VA
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70

Mr. Incredible

SUSTAINING MEMBER
1,467
395
83
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G80 Sport
So what does “full bolts on” mean? I assume it’s a fast car.
depends on who you talk to. typically:

Long Tube Headers
High Flow Cats
Cat Back Exhaust
Performance Heads
Larger Throttle Body, ported Intake Manifold
Cold Air Intake
Upgraded Suspension (Springs, Struts, Upper and Lower Arms, Sway Bars, Etc.)
Custom Tune.


About $12K-$18K worth of parts.

Essentially anything that "bolts" on to the motor without replacing internal parts.. Some people include Performance Cams since you slide it in without actually tearing down the motor.
______________________________
 

Beefer

Getting familiar with the group...
2,399
1,505
113
Richmond, VA
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
depends on who you talk to. typically:

Long Tube Headers
High Flow Cats
Cat Back Exhaust
Performance Heads
Larger Throttle Body, ported Intake Manifold
Cold Air Intake
Upgraded Suspension (Springs, Struts, Upper and Lower Arms, Sway Bars, Etc.)
Custom Tune.


About $12K-$18K worth of parts.

Essentially anything that "bolts" on to the motor without replacing internal parts.. Some people include Performance Cams since you slide it in without actually tearing down the motor.
Holy crap. Well...the G70 faired pretty f’ng well than !!!😜
 

Mr. Incredible

SUSTAINING MEMBER
1,467
395
83
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G80 Sport
Holy crap. Well...the G70 faired pretty f’ng well than !!!😜

no idea what he was running, but on an LS2 with that full list it is possible to get near or above 500hp / 500lb-ft depending on the parts combinations

I've read a few write-ups in Super Chevy and Hot-Rod Mag where guys pulled over 700hp with $15K worth of bolt-ons.

The crate motor I built for my 1939 Ford Tudor (Chevy 350 ZZ4) dynos at 460hp 490lb-ft with a mild cam, heads, full exhaust, and a 4-bbl carburetor. No fuel injection or tune. Just a good old Edelbrock on a high rise intake manifold, feeding a Th350 Transmission and a Ford 9" LSD rear end..



some people call exhaust and intake "full bolt ons" though.. so without knowing it's anyone's guess
 

Toddasaurus

Hasn't posted much yet...
503
299
63
Portland, OR
Genesis Model Type
No Genesis Yet!
Like mentioned above, "bolt ons" generally refers to anything you can replace (for higher performance) that attaches to the engine. These things are usually the easiest performance mods. The most common reference would be I/H/E, that is, a full replacement intake, header(s), and exhaust. Some people also include light weight pulleys, and intake manifolds with this. Now that turbo cars are more prevalent bolt ons have changed to encompass an even wider variety of mods.
 

NLJ

Registered Member
759
261
63
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
Anyone else try the drop-in filters yet?
Gave my old Infiniti a meaner sound and maybe a little more on the bottom end. But the sound probably made it feel faster!
 
Your email address will not be publicly visible. We will only use it to contact you to confirm your post.
Top