Long term reliability of HTRAC AWD transfer case due to inability to change the transfer case fluid?

[Pjm217]

Just completed the transfer case fluid replacement on my 2018 G80 3.8L HTRAC. Huge shoutout to Acpantera for the detailed write up in Post #81 above. My setup is exactly the same (triangular bracket on the back of the transfer case) and job took about 45 minutes. Very straightforward. Extracted and replaced approx. 500 ml.

Shocking that Genesis recommends replacing the entire unit rather than servicing the transfer case with some new fluid.

I bought this vehicle used a few months ago and started to notice the shudder when turning in reverse. Just clicked over to 40k miles, so this fluid swap was on the " to do" list. Nice and smooth now! (Next up - front & rear diff fluid).

I used this S-TEC TF-0870B transfer case fluid from FCP Euro:

BMW DTF1 Transfer Case Fluid (1 Liter) - Shell 83222409710

For a "new" Genesis owner, these forums have been a great resource, so thank you all for posting.

 

[Jhon]

I know in home lawn tractors, one of the most popular transaxles in the past was sealed. If it started to fail, some of people would drain it out though some breather hole and put in new fluid. That would solve a lot of performance problems and also prevent damage is you did it before you hand problem. So I can believe that changing the fluid will help this as well.
I have over 320 hours on my tractor and have wanted to do it for some time, but worry I will screw it up. Some of the better models had drain plugs. For the life of me, I don't know why they did not put one on my model. I thought about drilling a hole and tapping in some threads and using a bolt for a plug.

 

[Husky]

Sounds like a good way to put a lot of metal bits in your tranny.

 

[Jhon]

Sounds like a good way to put a lot of metal bits in your tranny.

I thought about that to, and different ways to prevent that from happening. I just don't want to have to take the transaxle off the tractor to dump out the old stuff, but it might be the only way.

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

The shudder you described here under acceleration, can you further describe it? I think I have the same issue and have another post under the new tires thread. My shudder/slip is happening under moderate throttle acceleration at the 18-45mph and gears 2,3,4 I think.

My issue was a bad torque converter. It was not staying locked up when it should. I documented this in the "Transmission shifting hard when coming to a stop." thread.

I just got my 2018 G80 back last Friday with new transmission replaced under warranty. They chose not to fix/replace the torque converter but did the entire tranny assembly which includes TC. No changes were done to the to transfer case as part of tranny replacement.

The tranny replacement was a big project. Dealer dropped engine sub-frame assembly, drive train and exhaust to get new transmission installed. Driving for a ~50 miles so far, I no longer get the shudder.

 

[Light2000]

great, all the sudden im not so confident of the transfer case fluid change. since its cheap I'll be trying it this weekend.

 

[Light2000]

changed the spark plugs today, problem still exists. fingers crossed for the transfer case oil change this weekend.

 

[Light2000]

Problem solved!!

Huge thanks to this forum and especially some in particular. This is really special that some folks take enough time to help a fellow owner solve a problem. Very grateful.

The ultimate fix was what’s been stated here: drain and replace the transfer case fluid. I bought the syringe on Amazon and ravenol fluid, found someone to rent me time on a lift and 35 min later was done. I got out about 500ml, maybe 450. Put in about 500ml before it started over flowing. Interesting thing was It didn’t immediately solve the problem. I drove away and the issue remained. However about 20 min later it went away like magic. I also noticed that getting up to highway speeds seemed to be the switchover point. Could just be a coincidence who knows. But. I’ve driven it a few days and a few hundred miles and it’s night and day. Made me fall in love with that engine and torque and spirited driving again!!

The fluid was definitely dark that came out, almost burnt. I guess I’ll do this again in about 1000 miles with the ravenol I have left just to be sure what’s in there gets diluted and properly flushed as good as can be. Absolutely crazy that genesis won’t acknowledge this and the dealer won’t change it as part of Maintainence.

 

[Light2000]

One other thing to note here, my car has 66k miles on it, my transfer case was replaced under warranty for a growling noise about 20k miles ago. So assuming they put the right amount and type of fluid in there upon replacement, to only get 20k miles out of it is very disappointing. I guess they’d have the customer keep replacing transfer cases every now and then at $3k a pop. Terrible!

 

[1816kg]

Problem solved!!

Huge thanks to this forum and especially some in particular. This is really special that some folks take enough time to help a fellow owner solve a problem. Very grateful.

The ultimate fix was what’s been stated here: drain and replace the transfer case fluid. I bought the syringe on Amazon and ravenol fluid, found someone to rent me time on a lift and 35 min later was done. I got out about 500ml, maybe 450. Put in about 500ml before it started over flowing. Interesting thing was It didn’t immediately solve the problem. I drove away and the issue remained. However about 20 min later it went away like magic. I also noticed that getting up to highway speeds seemed to be the switchover point. Could just be a coincidence who knows. But. I’ve driven it a few days and a few hundred miles and it’s night and day. Made me fall in love with that engine and torque and spirited driving again!!

The fluid was definitely dark that came out, almost burnt. I guess I’ll do this again in about 1000 miles with the ravenol I have left just to be sure what’s in there gets diluted and properly flushed as good as can be. Absolutely crazy that genesis won’t acknowledge this and the dealer won’t change it as part of Maintainence.

My apologies. This is old and long thread. What were your issues exactly? What did it solve?
Thank you.

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Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[Light2000]

See post 138 here. And this thread.


Thread 'Brand new tires now 0-40mph slipping or vibration'
Brand new tires now 0-40mph slipping or vibration

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

@Acpantera​

Q1) When you changed the TC fluid did it leak out of the fill/ hole when you removed the plug?
Q2) How tall are you jackstands/how high did it lift the car?
I'm asking to determine how much fluid to re-fill the TC fluid. I know capacity is 0.65 US qt. / 0.62 Liter, but because there is no drain plug on bottom, I won't know how much fluid to put back in. I'm not assuming the fluid level is correct now.
Q3) Is there a risk causing damage to TC if I overfill? I'm considering refilling until the fluid leaks out of the fill hole.

Subsequent to dealer diagnosing shudder as a bad torque converter and tranny replacement under warranty 1 month ago the issue is better, but still not right IMO. The shudder feeling was most noticeable in the summertime after the car, tranny/fluid heated up. I hypothesize the cooler weather is masking/reducing the shudder. I'm not getting occasional rough shifts anymore, but speculate the TC is putting extra stress on the tranny and will increase wear over time.

I do not notice the issue when I first start the car in the morning (~35F outside) nor at highway speeds. After car warms up, the shudder is most noticeable 20->45MPH / 1800->3000RPM.

Santa is bringing me some new car ramps before Christmas. I considered using jack stands on the front end, but it's too difficult/dangerous IMO. i couldn't' find a bay/lift for rent in my area. Changing the TC case fluid with the Ravenol DTF-1 fluid will be my Christmas holiday project.

 

[Acpantera]

@Acpantera​

Q1) When you changed the TC fluid did it leak out of the fill/ hole when you removed the plug?
Q2) How tall are you jackstands/how high did it lift the car?
I'm asking to determine how much fluid to re-fill the TC fluid. I know capacity is 0.65 US qt. / 0.62 Liter, but because there is no drain plug on bottom, I won't know how much fluid to put back in. I'm not assuming the fluid level is correct now.
Q3) Is there a risk causing damage to TC if I overfill? I'm considering refilling until the fluid leaks out of the fill hole.

Subsequent to dealer diagnosing shudder as a bad torque converter and tranny replacement under warranty 1 month ago the issue is better, but still not right IMO. The shudder feeling was most noticeable in the summertime after the car, tranny/fluid heated up. I hypothesize the cooler weather is masking/reducing the shudder. I'm not getting occasional rough shifts anymore, but speculate the TC is putting extra stress on the tranny and will increase wear over time.

I do not notice the issue when I first start the car in the morning (~35F outside) nor at highway speeds. After car warms up, the shudder is most noticeable 20->45MPH / 1800->3000RPM.

Santa is bringing me some new car ramps before Christmas. I considered using jack stands on the front end, but it's too difficult/dangerous IMO. i couldn't' find a bay/lift for rent in my area. Changing the TC case fluid with the Ravenol DTF-1 fluid will be my Christmas holiday project.

Hey Bubba, as I recall I think the fluid was right at the threads of the fill hole, dribbled out a bit, and I had the car about level.
As far as getting the beast in the air? I drove the front up on my ramps, then jacked the rear up by the rear differential, pretty much eyeballed the car so it was level. My ramps take the wheel up about 9".

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

Hey Bubba, as I recall I think the fluid was right at the threads of the fill hole, dribbled out a bit, and I had the car about level.
As far as getting the beast in the air? I drove the front up on my ramps, then jacked the rear up by the rear differential, pretty much eyeballed the car so it was level. My ramps take the wheel up about 9".

@Acpantera
Your response and detailed information on this is much appreciated.

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

I "changed" the Transfer Case fluid on my Genesis G80 Sport 3.3 HTRAC last weekend. Car had ~57,600 miles on it
I used the Ravenol Transfer Fluid DTF-1.

I rolled front end up on car ramps (still shocked that ramps are made out of "plastic"). Ramps were 17 degrees steep. Anything steeper/taller and bumper would have hit ramp before tire moved up ramp. I did not jack up the rear end.
FloTool 11912ABMI RhinoRamps MAX Vehicle Ramp - Pair (16,000lb. GVW Capacity) $71.01USD

This gave me enough room to crawl under car and remove 3 bolts holding bracket to TC and 2 bolts holding bracket to cross frame. Using a 14MM Hex bit I removed the "fill" plug. No fluid leaked out. Using a 20ml syringe and 12" hose I was able to remove about 400ml. At 20ml a suck it took about 20 minutes to get as much fluid out as possible. I had to fiddle with hose in TC to get out as much fluid as possible. Used fluid was dark colored like used motor oil and did not smell burnt. It was fairly thin as expected and no obvious metal shavings/material.

I used the same syringe to pump in about 400ml of new fluid 20ml at a time. I filled until it overflowed out of fill hole. Start to finish it took about 1.0 hours to do the work. A car lift would have made this a 15 minute job. The limited space to work in and crawling in and out from under car was time consuming and tough on my old bones.

I took car for a 15 minute test drive. The shudder experienced at 20->45MPH / 1800->3000RPM seemed a little less, but still noticeable. I've driven the car about 100 miles since the TC fluid change and the shudder is slowy decreasing/getting better. I may replace the fluid again in a few months to further dilute the original fluid left in the TC.

All the information provided by the users ( @Acpantera and @Light2000 ) who posted in this thread is much appreciated.

 

[UseAsDirected]

After reading this thread and watching a video from a certified mechanic who insists ignoring the 'Do Not Service' bulletins, I will give the transfer case oil change another try. The first attempt with a mechanic failed after we successfully replaced the automatic transmission fluid, AWD differential oil, engine coolant, and brake fluid. The transfer case oil is purchasable: Genesis TF 0870B / 00232-19066 TC oil, 1 quart bottle, but when he opened the port, he could not get the hose into the narrow diameter opening (narrower than all the other ports).

 

[Acpantera]

After reading this thread and watching a video from a certified mechanic who insists ignoring the 'Do Not Service' bulletins, I will give the transfer case oil change another try. The first attempt with a mechanic failed after we successfully replaced the automatic transmission fluid, AWD differential oil, engine coolant, and brake fluid. The transfer case oil is purchasable: Genesis TF 0870B / 00232-19066 TC oil, 1 quart bottle, but when he opened the port, he could not get the hose into the narrow diameter opening (narrower than all the other ports).View attachment 50380

When I did my transfer case juice the Genesis fluid was a myth. Myself and many others have used Ravenol. You have to use a small tube, like 1/4" diameter, it can be done, the fluid change works.

 

[UseAsDirected]

When I did my transfer case juice the Genesis fluid was a myth. Myself and many others have used Ravenol. You have to use a small tube, like 1/4" diameter, it can be done, the fluid change works.

Thank you, Acpantera, I am getting on top of that.

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

Update on my TC fluid change on my 2018 G80 Sport 3.3T HTRAC at ~57,600K miles Dec 7, 2022.

I'm at 58,787 miles today. The TC fluid change made a tremendous difference. Shudder/stutter under moderate to hard acceleration is 98.2% eliminated. The fluid change did not immediately eliminate the shudder/stutter. Some users in the forum reported it took ~25->50 miles for the improvement to occur. For me I saw noticeable improvement ~100 miles and at its most improved/current by ~300 miles after TC fluid change.

I welcome forum participant opinion on why the fluid change does not cause an immediate improvement.
My research indicate the TC has a wet clutch pack. My hypotheses are ...
1) The clutch pack surfaces need time to absorb the new TC fluid.
2) The clean fluid is removing "gunk" buildup on the clutch pack surfaces.
3) The TC case electronic brain needs some time to recalibrate itself with the new fluid.

As I still have ~500ml of the Ravenol DTF-1 fluid, I'll likely drain/refill in the near future depending on weather and my old bones/body.

 

[UseAsDirected]

When I did my transfer case juice the Genesis fluid was a myth. Myself and many others have used Ravenol. You have to use a small tube, like 1/4" diameter, it can be done, the fluid change works.

Acpantera, great news: the mechanic succeeded. He replaced the transfer case oil, Genesis TF 0870B / 00232-19066, and replaced the spark plugs. I noted the Ravenol from your previous note. Another mechanic previously changed the transfer oil 35,000 miles ago and yet look at how dark the spent oil is. He did a real time scan and said my car, almost seven years old, is in excellent shape. I am happy I revisited this thread.