Oil Consumption in '12 R-Spec

[stpetermi]

Good evening all. As you can tell from my very few posts is I purchased a 2012 RSpec dealer demo with 3K miles. The purchase was October of 2012. The product of the vehicle is January 2012. Not sure if that really tells you when the engine was built but will leave that for rest of you to argue. My first oil change at the Loma Linda (So. Cal) dealer (7,500K) the vehicle was down one quart of oil and I added one quart between the service. Informed my service advisor to note for the record. Second oil change (16.5K) I added another quart and it was noted it was still down about a quart. Informed my adviser there is an issue so he had me come back to complete some type of oil consumption monitoring and noted it is definitely was using excessively. I told him that for me the excessive oil consumption was unacceptable by my standards and I need some action. As I own two other V8s (Z06-5.7 & F150-5.4) with approximately 75k miles on each vehicle and between oil changes I never add and the one (Z06) vehicle averages about 1/ 2 quart low, however, note that I drive HPDE one time per month all year long. So my adviser set me up with an appointment to leave the vehicle so that he can complete leakdown and compression tests. And he said some other tests that corporate will need to satisfy them. Left the vehicle on Wednesday (12/11/13) they had my rental car ready for me at the dealer. I got a call on Monday (12/16/13) from my adviser stating all the tests failed specifically the rings. He said that corporate approved a "new engine" so he ordered one and it should arrive Wednesday (12/18/13). I was a little concerned however my adviser explained very professionally this is a "plug n play". Out with the old engine in with the new engine. New engine (reman) was installed on Thursday (12/19/13). The adviser wanted to keep the vehicle Friday to put some miles (25 miles) on the engine and ensure it was all in proper working order and get her washed up. Picked up the vehicle up Friday (12/20/13) runs beautiful and looks great. This was a really painless process however note that I have been really very nice Hyundai and they have been really nice to me in return. Let's see how the new engine does. Advice to others-This is not a oil or viscosity issue! State that up front to whomever you are working with as I did up front from the beginning. It's either valves or rings (of coarse assuming you have no leaks as did not have leaks) as I was pretty confident with them. They understood that I understood! Trying different oils,grades, and blends is not addressing the root cause folks. If if helps I am going to take a picture of my paperwork from the work completed. Cheers!

 

[palloverspec]

Cheers!

Thanks so much for the information. I am glad to see you got your engine replaced. Not many people are so lucky.

I think it would be helpful and also very kind of you to take a snap shot of the receipt of the work done on your car.

I was at Hyundai last weekend and my oil was down .8 of a quart. I only drove the car 1500 miles. I plan on taking it in after XMAS to get the oil consumption test.

I believe if we can document cases where Hyundai has replaced engines for the oil consumption issue, each one with this problem will have some ammunition.

One thing I told the dealer is this only seems to be happening to 2012 5.0 models not late production 2012 and 2013.

If I had to guess, something changed in the design. Maybe one of their engineers conducted a tolerance stack-up incorrectly with the piston rings or valve seals, or for that matter used the incorrect material.

Either way, I believe burning a quart of oil especially while only driving a 1550 miles is totally unacceptable by any modern day automotive standards.

 

[DRS]

St... Thanks for the detailed report.. And now we know they do not install a "new" engine. Instead a "remanufactured". Which could mean, all new guts, or could mean just changing the defective parts and leaving the rest alone. Depends on what "the word is, is" means. We should find out.

I would not want a 60k engine that was run in the sand desert of the Middle East, limited maintenance, but just some new rings, put into car with low mileage.

I am NOT trying to be a kill joy here. You just never know what they are up to unless one asks all questions and demands authentic answers in writing.

I wonder if this is one reason why the quality executive was fired a couple months back.

 

[bkleebauer]

I got tired of dealing with my oil consumption issue, I traded my 2012 R-Spec in on Thursday and treated myself to a 2014 R-Spec. Glad I did..WOW!!!!What a different car now. Better ride, better performance i.e. a lot faster & quicker, interior is better...everything is better, and I'll not have to be concerned about oil consumption problems anymore. BTW, I got a great deal at $2000 below invoice plus all the incentives. My payments are $50 less than the 2012. It was a no brainer for me.

 

[ksoze]

I got tired of dealing with my oil consumption issue, I traded my 2012 R-Spec in on Thursday and treated myself to a 2014 R-Spec. Glad I did..WOW!!!!What a different car now. Better ride, better performance i.e. a lot faster & quicker, interior is better...

Could you be more specific on the changes - I did not think there were any interior changes aside from minor switchgear and I thought power and suspension were the same.

 

[bkleebauer]

Seat leather is upgraded, stiffness & comfort in seats is upgraded. Motor & tranny are now matted for higher performance i.e THIS CAR FLIES!!! Power puts you back against your seat hard on accelleration. Suspension was upgraded to include dampers on struts for a more comfortable ride. GPS was upgraded. You gotta drive oneto know what I'm talking about. Difference between the 12 & the 14 is night and day, there is no comparison.

 

[DRS]

Thanks for the detail. My mailbox in the forum is no longer full.

 

[palloverspec]

Hello guys. Just got back from the delership. I am doing the oil consumption test at every 1500 miles.

I was informed again today about what Hyundai considers acceptable oil consumption. To be specific, I was told that burining a quart of oil in 1500 miles is going to be acceptable to Hyundai.

I basically stated it was not acceptable to me, and if you do the math, burning a quart of oil every 1500 miles would mean at the end of every oil change (7500 miles per manufacturer recommendation) I would be down 5 quarts.

Can anyone tell me who in their right mind would find that acceptable?

Total BS by Hyundai.

 

[videopho]

If not already started. My advice is for those whose cars are having this issue to start documenting the findings, including the statements from Hyundai as well.

 

[EXBMWGUY]

Hello guys. Just got back from the delership. I am doing the oil consumption test at every 1500 miles.



I was informed again today about what Hyundai considers acceptable oil consumption. To be specific, I was told that burining a quart of oil in 1500 miles is going to be acceptable to Hyundai.



I basically stated it was not acceptable to me, and if you do the math, burning a quart of oil every 1500 miles would mean at the end of every oil change (7500 miles per manufacturer recommendation) I would be down 5 quarts.



Can anyone tell me who in their right mind would find that acceptable?



Total BS by Hyundai.

Escalate like a "polite" crazy person. I know that may seem strange, but you will get more allies along the way if people believe you are totally rational and respectful, but as determined as a freight train.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[wd40]

Hello guys. Just got back from the delership. I am doing the oil consumption test at every 1500 miles.

I was informed again today about what Hyundai considers acceptable oil consumption. To be specific, I was told that burining a quart of oil in 1500 miles is going to be acceptable to Hyundai.

I basically stated it was not acceptable to me, and if you do the math, burning a quart of oil every 1500 miles would mean at the end of every oil change (7500 miles per manufacturer recommendation) I would be down 5 quarts.

Can anyone tell me who in their right mind would find that acceptable?

Total BS by Hyundai.

Bunch of crap. My R spec has never burned a drop between oil changes. I've had a ton of company cars over the years and only one burned oil (Pontiac) and GM ended up replacing the engine. They tried the same thing-a quart every 1K is normal. BS.

 

[2012 RSpec]

It takes 25 or more with the same issue in this group of cars and the EPA dive in.

See emails below and response from EPA.

Email to EPA.
Dear Anne

Good Morning. We write because we do not know who to write and hopefully you may be able to direct us.

As you may know, Hyundai Motors USA had an issue with understating mileage to the EPA for which Hyundai is now giving fuel credits via debit cards. However, myself and other owners are sure that Hyundai Motors USA NEVER disclosed that their 5.0 Liter TAU Motor that comes standard in the GENESIS RSpec and their EQUUS has excessive oil consumption/burn adding additional OIL and CARBON POLLUTANTS to the environment.

In particular, our 2012 Hyundai Genesis RSpec 5.0 Liter TAU Motor does not leak any oil whatsoever. It does, however, consume oil at the rate of 2-quarts plus per oil change and more. Thus leaving a black fogged mask on the rear of our 2012 Hyundai Genesis RSpec and the fuel additive Hyundai mandates every oil change has corroded and pitted both exhaust tips. Furhter, I have had others tell me it puffs out a smoke intermittently when I am followed by others. Hyundai Motors USA "say" 1-quart per 1,000 miles is OK! We disagree!

First off I am sure Hyundai Motors USA did not and has not informed, or reported, to the EPA that their early model 5.0 Liter TAU Motor is consuming oil at an excessive rate while adding additional OIL and CARBON POLLUTANTS to the environment here that we are not pleased with and the EPA should not be either. For the record, hyundai Motors USA has selectively changed some 5.0 Liter TAU motors but is keeping it on the "down low" because they do not want to admit they have a major issue with the early model 5.0 Liter TAU Motors. Hyundai has not allowed our local dealer to perform any additional fixes to cure the excessive oil consumption.burning issue! Secondly, we were told by others that Hyundai Motors USA does not want to get the EPA investigating like the gas mileage issue Hyundai Motors USA over reported and were caught by the EPA.

In addition, a quart of synthetic oil at the gas station can cost as much as $10.00 or more. As a consumer, these monies were not figured in to our operating costs because they were not disclosed. Please note that I do not know one person that would purchase new car if it was disclosed upfront (not after the deal) that it is OK if their new car consumes/burns up to a quart of oil per 1,000 miles; I am sure the EPA will not be pleased of this either and more than likely was not told of this issue by Hyundai Motors USA.

Hopefully you can help direct me. If you are not who I should be writing at the EPA, please steer me on the correct course of action(s) and contacts with the EPA.

Very truly yours,

EPA Response
For potential emission-related defects, as you describe, you should report them to EPA’s Imports Line (although this group of people at EPA deals with imports, they are also tasked with data collection responsibilities, such as monitoring reports of defects). I copied the EPA mail address for this group. I also copied the group manager for light duty vehicle certification, and one of his key staff members. EPA looks at a variety of information, including warranty reports from manufacturers, it’s own testing, and reports from the public, to target vehicles for in-use testing. If in-use testing shows exceedance of an emission standard, then the EPA may order a manufacturer to recall the vehicles and fix the emission problem. Also, manufacturers are required to report emission-related defects when they occur in 25 or more vehicles of the same class or category. It is possible that Hyundai may have already reported this issue, but EPA will check.
While in the past it was the case that vehicles that burned oil did not exceed emission standards, standards have gotten tighter over the years, and the problem you describe may lead to the exceedance of one of the emission standards. But I will leave that issue to those who know more about it at EPA.
Anne Wick, Mechanical Engineer
Vehicle and Engine Team Leader
wick.anne@epa.gov

CC: David Good good.david@epa.gov
Linc Wehrly wehrly.linc@epa.gov
Imports Imports@epa.gov

 

[2012 RSpec]

Bunch of crap. My R spec has never burned a drop between oil changes. I've had a ton of company cars over the years and only one burned oil (Pontiac) and GM ended up replacing the engine. They tried the same thing-a quart every 1K is normal. BS.

Started Oil Consumption Test...2 quarts in less than 2000 miles. Now 30,000 mile maintenance due. Dealer is restarting test after oil change...This is BS.

 

[palloverspec]

That is very interesting 2012 RSPEC.

I spoke to a lawyer friend, and he stated Hyundai could be opening themselves for a class action lawsuit over this. It would be cheaper for them to acknowledge there is an issue with the burning oil in these engines and replace them. In other words, this could get rather nasty with Public Relations and impact Hyundai sales.

As most of you have seen, there has been a drastic shake-up in their executive ranks, and most likely for a good reason.

On another note, does anyone know how much Hyundai will charge for a leak down test? I was going to ask Hyundai to perform this test and get a report from them. Granted, I would have to pay for this test, but once the test is done and a defect is shown, I think that is enough proof.

Put simply, the lawyer I spoke to asked why not just bypass the initial stage of the oil consumption test and ask the dealership to do a leak down test.

According to the Lawyer, from reading the shop manual, if the test shows a defect they will have to repair the problem if the car is still under warranty.

Has anyone done the leak down test and if so, what were the results?

The shop manual states......

Compression pressure 156 psi/ minimum 135 psi

Difference between each cylinder: 14 psi or less

It also states....

If the cylinder compression in one of more cylinders is low add engine oil to the cylinder.
If adding oil helps the compression, piston rings and/or cylinder bore are worn or damaged.

If the pressure stays low, a valve may be sticking or not seating correctly, or gasket leakage.

 

[2012 RSpec]

palloverspec

If all here would band together and we get 25 or more, the EPA will step in and evaluate.

Put a quart of 5w20 in at 26895. Went to dealer at 27991, dealer noted 1 qt. low. But since I am coming up on the 30000 maintenance that oil consumption test will be restarted when changed. This is pure bullshit. I try to choose my battles wisely, however Hyundai has left me no choice but to document, document and document and pull the gloves off.

 

[jmo51]

Simply put my early does not burn oil at the rate being reported here.

My last change I used Castrol 5/30 full syn. With 3200 miles since the change, the dip stick reads less than 1/2 quart down. It seems that my car will use 1 qt in 4k miles

 

[mikec]

Has anyone done the leak down test and if so, what were the results?

The shop manual states......

Compression pressure 156 psi/ minimum 135 psi

Difference between each cylinder: 14 psi or less

It also states....

If the cylinder compression in one of more cylinders is low add engine oil to the cylinder.
If adding oil helps the compression, piston rings and/or cylinder bore are worn or damaged.

If the pressure stays low, a valve may be sticking or not seating correctly, or gasket leakage.

What you posted is a basic compression test, a simple test compared to a full cylinder leak-down test. A compression test basically tells you the absolute maximum air pressure developed in the cylinders, one by one, while the starter motor spins the engine. The test doesn't really check how long the cylinder can hold that pressure, nor is there a specific statement as to how quickly the pressure should reach the maximum value. Any decent mechanic knows the compression gauge should max out after just a couple engine revolutions (just a few seconds with the typical starter motor RPM) though this isn't mentioned in the shop manuals. Not knowing this you could run a test on one cylinder for half a minute or whatever and eventually reach the service manual pressure numbers... thinking the engine is thus okay when it really is not.

A leak-down test checks how rapidly air pressure drains out of the cylinder; this can identify part failures as well as simple high-mileage wear-n-tear. It's a MUCH better test than a basic compression test though it takes more effort to run, and a little skill/practice to get consistent results. In a nutshell, the engine is turned (with a wrench, not with the starter motor) so a cylinder is at Top Dead Center (i.e. piston as high as it'll go in the bore, the valves are closed; if the engine were running the spark would have just happened to ignite the air+fuel mix to start the power stroke of the 4-stroke cycle), then an air compressor is used to pump air into the cylinder via the spark plug hole. A dual-dial gauge device is used between the compressor and the engine, this device includes a small orifice inside to limit how rapidly air can flow through it. The gauges are on either side of this orifice... so if the engine has big air leaks, the gauge on the output of the test device will read significantly lower pressure compared to the input side. A fresh engine, properly broken in, will have roughly a 5% leak-down rate. A 200K mile engine that runs okay but has normal wear-n-tear will read in the 15% to 20% ballpark. Some race engines, with fancy (expensive) piston rings and very tight machining tolerances, can get as low as 1 to 3%.

Besides poor piston ring sealing, another common source of excessive oil consumption in engines is lousy crankcase ventilation systems. When an otherwise healthy engine runs, some of the combustion air+fuel mix squeezes past the rings (the 5% leakdown) and ends up in the crankcase with the oil; these are blow-by gasses. This mess is corrosive... so engines include a one-way air valve (the PCV valve, aka Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve) that lets air flow from the crankcase into the intake manifold. Normal engine vacuum draws blow-by gasses through the PCV and into the intake manifold where it can be re-burned. Running at high altitudes (low ambient air pressures) or with the throttle mashed leads to low engine vacuum and may reduce PCV system performance. Some engines had lousy PCV system designs; it was easy for the hoses to plug up, collapse, etc. blocking the system. When this happens, the blow-by gasses build up in the crankcase, pressurizing the crankcase. This pressure shoves oil past gaskets (=external oil leaks), past the valve stem seals (oil ends up in the cylinders and gets burned), and can push oil past the piston rings during the cylinder's intake stroke => burning oil. The pressure may also interfere with how the rings sit/ride in the piston grooves, basically holding them out of proper position which makes it even easier for oil to get past the rings.

mike c.

 

[palloverspec]

Thanks for the correction Mike C.

You are correct. The shop manual states compression pressure inspection.

What you have describe is correct. I also looked on youtube and "Eric the car guy" gives a good video of the leak down test.

 

[gameday22]

My 3.8 Genny is less than a month old, had the oil changed at 1800 miles just to get all the junk from the initial break-in flushed out of the system. I switched over to Synthetic like I always do with all my vehicles, when the Tech did the change he said did you know you were down almost a full quart of oil?? .....Makes me wonder if the vehicle was PDI'd correctly or if it actually burned that much oil.

My 2010 3.8 didn't burn a drop so it's very concerning to me to see that much gone with <2k miles. That's telling me that if I went the full 5k between changes like the technician put on my next change sticker I'd potentially be down 2 quarts or more ?? ...horrible if that's the case. I'm now nearing 3k miles and will be checking it in the next couple of days, it was just above the fill line on the stick which was marked by the Hyundai technician.

Will follow-up post soon with results.

 

[DRS]

Gameday... Thanks. And keep us posted. Might have a V6 issue?

Yours a 2013, or 2014?