Price Paid For 2015 Genesis

[Aquineas]

I negotiated this price before my trade-in discussion. I didn't even go to the dealerships in person before we agreed on pricing. I used going into the dealership as a bargaining chip since they know that they have to get you to the dealership in person and they also know once you walk out of the dealership you are %95 of the time not coming back to sign the lease deal.

I agree with this. They've got to make it worth my while over the phone before I go into a dealership. And even then, sometimes they're complete morons. One dealership I went into in the Houston area balked about my trade-in value guarantee, and their way of handling it was to tell me nothing and leave me in limbo for an hour and a half. Dealerships love playing the waiting game. In many cases, the longer you're there waiting on a deal, the more likely you are to accept one that's more favorable to them. I left that dealership and bought my Genesis from another dealer the very next day. As I was walking out, I heard the salesperson (who seemed like a pretty cool guy) admonishing "the tower" for taking too long. "The tower" is the car sales term for the portion of the dealership where the sales manager sits where the sales people always need to get final deal approval.

 

[PaulZooms]

I negotiated this price before my trade-in discussion. I didn't even go to the dealerships in person before we agreed on pricing. I used going into the dealership as a bargaining chip since they know that they have to get you to the dealership in person and they also know once you walk out of the dealership you are %95 of the time not coming back to sign the lease deal.

Trade-in appraisal was the last thing I cross shopped once I had three dealers offering me the Tech AWD Genesis for $38,750 or $39,000 after incentives and before taxes and fees. I had all three dealers appraising my car and went with the highest bidder...

I agree with Boulderado's approach with one possible refinement. Use email for your "reverse auction". Never negotiate in person, and avoid using the phone. Find a stock unit at every local dealer and request a competitive quote via email with a short deadline. Once all bids are in, ask all but the lowest bidder to beat that quote. Rinse, lather and repeat until there is only one dealer left.

Next, if you have a trade-in, get quotes from CarMax and a few other dealers for your trade. Knowing the cash value, you are ready to work with the winning bidder. Keep in mind sales tax savings from the trade and see what they offer, using your best quote for leverage. If they beat or match, fine. If not, sell it to CarMax or whomever.

If you are financing the purchase, see what local banks or credit unions are offering before discussing it with your low bidder.

I've used this approach on six or eight new car purchases and have always done very well.

 

[soldonandy]

I agree with Boulderado's approach with one possible refinement. Use email for your "reverse auction". Never negotiate in person, and avoid using the phone. Find a stock unit at every local dealer and request a competitive quote via email with a short deadline. Once all bids are in, ask all but the lowest bidder to beat that quote. Rinse, lather and repeat until there is only one dealer left.

Next, if you have a trade-in, get quotes from CarMax and a few other dealers for your trade. Knowing the cash value, you are ready to work with the winning bidder. Keep in mind sales tax savings from the trade and see what they offer, using your best quote for leverage. If they beat or match, fine. If not, sell it to CarMax or whomever.

If you are financing the purchase, see what local banks or credit unions are offering before discussing it with your low bidder.

I've used this approach on six or eight new car purchases and have always done very well.

Why would you trade in to begin with? If you work so hard to get the lowest price for the new car, why roll over and take wholesale for it?

 

[Boulderado]

Why would you trade in to begin with? If you work so hard to get the lowest price for the new car, why roll over and take wholesale for it?

In my case my trade-in was my leased BMW (with about 12 lease payments left) and in Colorado you cannot sell a leased car unless you have a dealer licence.

And some people (or maybe I should say most) don't like the hassle of dealing with bunch of low-balling craigslist vultures and all the back and forth and time spent for showing the car to all the potential buyers...

 

[soldonandy]

In my case my trade-in was my leased BMW (with about 12 lease payments left) and in Colorado you cannot sell a leased car unless you have a dealer licence.

And some people (or maybe I should say most) don't like the hassle of dealing with bunch of low-balling craigslist vultures and all the back and forth and time spent for showing the car to all the potential buyers...

Oh wow, you ate 12 months of a lease payment? We put my girlfriends Scion on craigslist $1,000 above wholesale which was enough to stimulate a fast sale, I think the key is to add a grand or so to the low ball dealer price and it will move albeit with some level of hassle

 

[Boulderado]

Oh wow, you ate 12 months of a lease payment? We put my girlfriends Scion on craigslist $1,000 above wholesale which was enough to stimulate a fast sale, I think the key is to add a grand or so to the low ball dealer price and it will move albeit with some level of hassle

I haven't kept a car for more than 18 months yet Most people don't know that you can trade in a lease car at any point during the lease...

 

[PaulZooms]

Why would you trade in to begin with? If you work so hard to get the lowest price for the new car, why roll over and take wholesale for it?

For cars I'm buying, I sell the outgoing one on Craigslist. I find the Edmunds pvt party price works well. KBB is too high. When procuring new cars for my older kids, trading is preferred, even at wholesale. They are too busy to deal with it, and it's too much hassle for me with them living 30-45 minutes away. If the dealer gives a good offer, it reduces the sales tax on the new unit, so it is closer to the pvt party price.

 

[wmutkelaw]

Pulled the trigger. Black 3.8 AWD with signature and tech packages.

Thanks for the help!

 

[RSPEC429]

just a few posts ago, someone mentioned $1500 conquest incentive. I believe I am not getting that incentive included in my deal. What gives?

I have decided to look at a Signature with Tech. The deal I am being presented with is $45107.00 before taxes/fees.

I believe it includes $1000.00 dealer incentive.

Pretty sure that $1500 incentive was for last month. The April incentives are fairly lame.

 

[Boulderado]

Pretty sure that $1500 incentive was for last month. The April incentives are fairly lame.

Nope they are still offering the conquest and lease cash ($1500 each) in April.

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[Heisenberg]

Interesting side note, I just interviewed an established car salesman for a Real Estate job and he admitted what most of basically new is that there is no money for the dealers on new cars and invoice is the new retail. So the discount really starts when you get below invoice and the reality is, according to him, the money today is on the trade in/used car. So the higher the discount, the greater the fleecing on the trade. In other words, Dealers will take your trade all day at wholesale and turn a profit. Also, why call all the dealers for the best price and work so hard to negotiate a new car and then give up on your current car for wholesale, wouldn't it make sense to take some of that negotiating energy and flip it for private party value? So you get a huge discount but leave a few thousand on the table on the trade side? It would be interesting to here from folks that negotiated a substantial discount without a trade, I am sure there are a few !

This is not all true. One thing that people who do not work in the industry in some fashion do not know (I work at a bank and know very well how car dealerships work because several finance their dealer floor plan through us) is car dealerships do not expect to make a lot of money from profit margins based on sale price compared to invoice of new cars...This is part of the system and is misleading and a farce. Sure, this is 'technically' what the books say the dealerships get the cars for, but what most people do not know is the dealerships get significant kickbacks from the manufacturer for moving product as quickly as possible, and believe me they make plenty of money by selling a new car even if it below invoice. Every car they sell, even if they sell it below invoice, they make money by kickbacks from the manufacturer. That is how a dealer floor plan works. They also get a percentage of the interest when you finance a car...Most people don't realize this. Finally, they really make their money from the service department and parts. This is really what keeps dealerships profitable and they know it. It's all about moving as much product and keeping you coming back to them for service and parts.

Finally, when talking about trade-ins and it being a rip off, you are completely omitting the fact that you do not have to pay any sales tax on your trade in, which you otherwise would. If you are like me and traded a car valued at $8,000+, this is a significant savings. You take this and the fact that you don't have to worry about any of the hassle of a private sell or liability (the person who buys your car suing you if something goes wrong), trading in is not always a bad thing.

I apologize if this post comes across harshly, most people do not know how car dealerships really work and how they make money, and I just want to clarify how it does in reality

 

[Heisenberg]

One other thing that everyone buying a used car should also consider....Car dealerships get the overwhelming majority of their used car inventory from auctions, and they always get these cars at bargain basement prices well below the kbb value of the car...Yet they use deceiving tactics when selling by using the kbb value as the baseline of the cars worth. If you know this going into a car purchase, you can pretty much prevent yourself from getting ripped off.

 

[ksoze]

....Car dealerships get the overwhelming majority of their used car inventory from auctions, and they always get these cars at bargain basement prices well below the kbb value of the car...Yet they use deceiving tactics when selling by using the kbb value as the baseline of the cars worth. If you know this going into a car purchase, you can pretty much prevent yourself from getting ripped off.

Car auctions are used by dealers both ways - to get rid of a traded car that will not move or will not sell well on their lot or to fill their used car lot. Auction cars are not consumers cars - there are assumed costs for the auction and the dealer then has to recondition and in many cases certify the car for at least 30 days. Auction pricing gives a floor price in a used car - it is the lowest price a dealer can get a car or the price they can get to dump one. That means the gap between that price and KBB trade-in is where the money is made or lost unless it is sold by the dealer.

That difference between auction prices and KBB trade-in however is sometimes slim to none based on auction reports.

Current Example: a 2012 Genesis R-Spec with 40K miles in VG condition.
KBB trade-in: $24,169
Auction avg: $24,500 (Manheim)

Another Example: a 2010 Honda Accord sedan EX -72K miles in VG condition
KBB trade-in: $9,772
Auction avg: $10,850 (Manheim)

 

[Heisenberg]

Car auctions are used by dealers both ways - to get rid of a traded car that will not move or will not sell well on their lot or to fill their used car lot. Auction cars are not consumers cars - there are assumed costs for the auction and the dealer then has to recondition and in many cases certify the car for at least 30 days. Auction pricing gives a floor price in a used car - it is the lowest price a dealer can get a car or the price they can get to dump one. That means the gap between that price and KBB trade-in is where the money is made or lost unless it is sold by the dealer.

That difference between auction prices and KBB trade-in however is sometimes slim to none based on auction reports.

Current Example: a 2012 Genesis R-Spec with 40K miles in VG condition.
KBB trade-in: $24,169
Auction avg: $24,500 (Manheim)

Another Example: a 2010 Honda Accord sedan EX -72K miles in VG condition
KBB trade-in: $9,772
Auction avg: $10,850 (Manheim)

Fair point. In most cases though, based on my work in the industry and knowing people who manage dealerships, they are able to get cars from auction at below the kbb value, and in some cases extremely below. If you know this general rule you can at minimum tell the salesman this if he using shady tactics!

 

[bausti25]

This is not all true. One thing that people who do not work in the industry in some fashion do not know (I work at a bank and know very well how car dealerships work because several finance their dealer floor plan through us) is car dealerships do not expect to make a lot of money from profit margins based on sale price compared to invoice of new cars...This is part of the system and is misleading and a farce. Sure, this is 'technically' what the books say the dealerships get the cars for, but what most people do not know is the dealerships get significant kickbacks from the manufacturer for moving product as quickly as possible, and believe me they make plenty of money by selling a new car even if it below invoice. Every car they sell, even if they sell it below invoice, they make money by kickbacks from the manufacturer. That is how a dealer floor plan works. They also get a percentage of the interest when you finance a car...Most people don't realize this. Finally, they really make their money from the service department and parts. This is really what keeps dealerships profitable and they know it. It's all about moving as much product and keeping you coming back to them for service and parts.

Finally, when talking about trade-ins and it being a rip off, you are completely omitting the fact that you do not have to pay any sales tax on your trade in, which you otherwise would. If you are like me and traded a car valued at $8,000+, this is a significant savings. You take this and the fact that you don't have to worry about any of the hassle of a private sell or liability (the person who buys your car suing you if something goes wrong), trading in is not always a bad thing.

I apologize if this post comes across harshly, most people do not know how car dealerships really work and how they make money, and I just want to clarify how it does in reality

100% agree with you. I think sometimes people are to focused on the wrong things when trying to get "a deal" and don't always calculate the value of their time and energy as part of the costs too.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Very, very informative post. Thank you...

This is not all true. One thing that people who do not work in the industry in some fashion do not know (I work at a bank and know very well how car dealerships work because several finance their dealer floor plan through us) is car dealerships do not expect to make a lot of money from profit margins based on sale price compared to invoice of new cars...This is part of the system and is misleading and a farce. Sure, this is 'technically' what the books say the dealerships get the cars for, but what most people do not know is the dealerships get significant kickbacks from the manufacturer for moving product as quickly as possible, and believe me they make plenty of money by selling a new car even if it below invoice. Every car they sell, even if they sell it below invoice, they make money by kickbacks from the manufacturer. That is how a dealer floor plan works. They also get a percentage of the interest when you finance a car...Most people don't realize this. Finally, they really make their money from the service department and parts. This is really what keeps dealerships profitable and they know it. It's all about moving as much product and keeping you coming back to them for service and parts.

Finally, when talking about trade-ins and it being a rip off, you are completely omitting the fact that you do not have to pay any sales tax on your trade in, which you otherwise would. If you are like me and traded a car valued at $8,000+, this is a significant savings. You take this and the fact that you don't have to worry about any of the hassle of a private sell or liability (the person who buys your car suing you if something goes wrong), trading in is not always a bad thing.

I apologize if this post comes across harshly, most people do not know how car dealerships really work and how they make money, and I just want to clarify how it does in reality

 

[Heisenberg]

Very, very informative post. Thank you...

No problem. There is also an app called Snafu (I think) that was designed to help people not get screwed when buying used cars and gives you the average auction price in that geographical area of a specific vehicle, etc. Highly recommend anyone buying a used car get this app (assuming it still exists!!)

 

[RSPEC429]

Nope they are still offering the conquest and lease cash ($1500 each) in April.

Do you have a link to show this? Because I'm not seeing it anywhere.

 

[Boulderado]

Do you have a link to show this? Because I'm not seeing it anywhere.

"CONQUEST LEASE COUPON
Receive an additional $1,500 off a new 2015 Hyundai Genesis lease if you are the current registered owner of a qualifying conquest vehicle.

Qualifying conquest vehicles: 2004 - 2015 model year Acura, Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes Benz, Chrysler 300, Jaguar, Avalon, Buick La Crosse and Volvo."

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/financial-tools/special-offers.aspx

"alexfrnch said:
Hi,

Do you have April # for 3.8 Genesis RWD 12/36 in WA state? Thank you


.00041 MF and 59% residual. $1500 lease cash"

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/17891/hyundai/genesis/2015-hyundai-genesis-lease-questions/p7

 

[nizmoz]

Well, picked up my (NEW to me) 2015 5.0 Ultimate (wheel locks, first aid kit, cargo net) last Friday and I LOVE it! Parisian Gray with black interior. It had 4K miles on it and I paid 45,900 (including dealer doc fee) plus tax. They gave me a good trade value on my '09 TL. The car looks like it's brand new and I didn't have to take the "new car hit". I'm happy with my deal. I'll be going back to the dealer on Monday so that they can swap out the trunk badge for free. BTW, it's a Certified Pre-Owned so it comes with the full 10yr/100K mile power train warranty.

Our family had an 09 and a 2012 TL SH-AWD, and I loved those cars. Looking to get a Genesis now, and wanted to ask what your thoughts are in comparison?