Smart Trunk opening in the night

[onmark]

Thanks for the reply, hopefully it gets resolved!

 

[EdP]

Based on information provided in this thread, I still think this is a mechanical/wiring issue and not cause by Radio Frequency (RF) interference/malfunction.

For and fun and to support this forum...
With the first person who responds, I'll wager up to $30 from this forums "Store" that this is caused by a mechanical/wiring issue not RF.

I'll take you up on it. Once declared "fixed" how long do you want to wait and see if it is really fixed?
Wiring that only shorts out in the middle of the night? Only in the driveway? I'm skeptical.

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

I'll take you up on it. Once declared "fixed" how long do you want to wait and see if it is really fixed?
Wiring that only shorts out in the middle of the night? Only in the driveway? I'm skeptical.

@EdP Consider bet taken and your hand shaken. The bet is payable after a fix and the issue does not re-occur for 1 month.

@onmark - Lets us know when and what fixes your trunk issue so we can determine who has "bragging rights".

 

[TurtleBoy]

Wiring that only shorts out in the middle of the night? Only in the driveway? I'm skeptical.

I had a 1970 Ford Maverick that had a horn that would start blaring in the middle of the night when the temp went below 60 or so. No matter what I did I could not get it to stop doing it so I finally put a little switch in the line to turn of the power to it at night and then when I went to drive it I would engage it. Drove the neighbors crazy. LOL

 

[Aurally]

When I read the messages last week that it might be fixed, I withheld my opinions, thinking that it would only bear mentioning if it happened again. Now that it did, here is my Occam's razor theory:

To me, the easiest and simplest way to open the trunk would be through the emergency release latch inside the trunk. It's purely mechanical and bypasses just about everything, providing a mechanical shortcut to disengage the latch. I discounted this possibility after reading that the latch has been replaced. It seems the emergency release is built right into the latch, but there might be a possibility that they are separately replaced. It may be worth checking it to make sure it doesn't require featherweight to operate it.

Thinking along the same line, perhaps a critter found a way into the trunk, and was smart enough to nibble on the release latch? The glow in the dark paint on the release hatch would make it obvious for the critter as well as intended humans. My test would be to tape up the emergency release hatch so it's hard to trigger. If a human would ever be trapped during the test, the tape could still be removed by said person.

 

[surprisinguy]

I installed an aftermarket alarm in one of my cars 20 years ago. EVERY single time I activated the alarm with the keyfob it would open my neighbor's garage door across the street. (he tried fixing the latch... didnt work ). Never told him, I just made sure it was armed by locking the doors, not just arming the alarm. I could make it go up and down as much as I wanted.

 

[In-House Bob]

I had a 1970 Ford Maverick that had a horn that would start blaring in the middle of the night when the temp went below 60 or so. No matter what I did I could not get it to stop doing it so I finally put a little switch in the line to turn of the power to it at night and then when I went to drive it I would engage it. Drove the neighbors crazy. LOL

Ha! My '73 Pinto did the same thing. The little copper strip in the horn mechanism would bend in the cold and make contact. I didn't know it was happening (in the apartment complex parking lot) until one morning I found a note from the police saying they had disconnected my battery in the night. I just bent the copper tap out a bit and it was better.
Not sure that this would work on this trunk release

 

[Speeder]

Way back I had a 1975 Porsche 914. Whenever it got really cold the engine cover would open and would't latch until I defrosted the release cable. Never replaced the cable but I suspect it had water inside the sheath.

 

[WPB]

"Light dimming that works sometimes, sometimes it doesn't dim, Cruise control that floors the pedal when you push reset, and Blue tooth dropping paring." With these problems, in addition to the trunk makes me think of bad ground(s) somewhere or even something called "floating grounds".

 

[onmark]

One caveat, the last time the trunk opened and filled with ice, a newly installed garage door opener activated as well, opening the garage door a quarter of the way. Off to the dealer this morning, but not optimistic.

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[Paulsr]

he said his key is well over 200 feet away.

I still believe that he has a neighbor with a garage door opener or even a car that is on nearly the same if not the same frequency.

It's digital. The frequency is irrelevant.

 

[WPB]

That coincidence points to an RF trigger. Outside possibility is transient voltage spikes in the power grid. Any other "funny" electrical things happen in your home? Any lightning on the nights these things happen?

 

[onmark]

Nothing else! Car is in the dealers hands now.

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

Nothing else! Car is in the dealers hands now.

@EdP Please don't be RF problem. Daddy wants some new bling from the forum store.

 

[EdP]

@EdP Please don't be RF problem. Daddy wants some new bling from the forum store.

I've already been shopping. Just like a kid going through the Sear toy catalog. ! ! !

 

[In-House Bob]

I have my money on Poltergeist.

 

[Mr. Incredible]

It's digital. The frequency is irrelevant.

If that were true then no one could grab the code with the proper equipment. It operates on UHF and I have the equipment, it is very easy to grab the code from the key fob, even without actually using the fob and merely having it in your pocket and pressing the unlock button on the drivers door.

the Genesis G80 Key fob FCC ID is SY5HIFGE04 as noted on the fob circuit board and operates on Frequency range 433.92 MHz UHF, the same frequency used by literally 780+ other device manufacturers, from Christmas tree lighting to Wireless light switches, to garage and gate openers.

FCC ID SY5HIFGE04 Smart Key Fob by Continental Automotive Systems Corporation

FCC ID application submitted by Continental Automotive Systems Corporation for Smart Key Fob for FCC ID SY5HIFGE04. Approved Frequencies, User Manuals, Photos, and Wireless Reports.

fccid.io

433.92 MHz Wireless Frequency Explorer

Explore the 433.92 MHz wireless spectrum usage by device FCC ID and FCC Rules. Convert 433.92 MHz to Hertz, Kilohertz, Megahertz, or Gigahertz. Identify rules and operating devices at the 433.92 MHz frequency bandwidth.

fccid.io

it rolls codes via CDMA digital up and down links from 420 MHz - 446.5MHz which are also used by 762+ other device manufacturers.

420 MHz to 450 MHz Wireless Frequency Explorer

Explore the 420 MHz to 450 MHz wireless spectrum usage by device FCC ID and FCC Rules. Convert 420 MHz to 450 MHz to Hertz, Kilohertz, Megahertz, or Gigahertz. Identify rules and operating devices at the 420 MHz to 450 MHz frequency bandwidth.

fccid.io

It is completely possible that some piece of equipment one of his neighbors has is interfering with his trunk, I've seen it, I've had it happen to me as noted several times in this thread, and I can replicate it.

Garage door openers are the most likely culprit as they operate in the same UHF range and roll codes in the same manner as a car key fob, while there are billions of possible combinations, it is still limited and it is very possible that 2 devices interfere with each other and the car is interpreting the signal it is receiving and opening the trunk.

the only way to 100% know is to change out the receiver in the car and recode the keys.

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

The possibility of 2 transmitters (key fob/garage opener), coincidentally not maliciously, transmitting the same rolling code multiple times in the same geographical area to 2 receivers (car/garage opener) repeatedly is highly unlikely. If people think this is likely they should buy a lottery ticket, play golf and stay indoors. You are more likely to win Powerball, hit a hole in one and get struck by lightning on the same day.

It is more likely the transmitter/receiver implementation was done incorrectly/poorly. For example the auto engineer may have chosen to use a byte to store/calculate the rolling code which reduces the number of possible codes to 256.

Rolling codes, implemented correctly, mitigates the risk of a replay attack (capturing current code and re-using).

The likelihood of a transmitter randomly sending the correct next rolling code accidentally consistently is VERY low.
Short of an intentional/malicious Rolljam/man in the middle type attack or poor implementation it is highly unlikely this is an RF problem.

The best way to test this is to reseed/re-sync the key fob and car. I don’t know if this is technically feasible in the G’s.

 

[Mr. Incredible]

The possibility of 2 transmitters (key fob/garage opener), coincidentally not maliciously, transmitting the same rolling code multiple times in the same geographical area to 2 receivers (car/garage opener) repeatedly is highly unlikely. If people think this is likely they should buy a lottery ticket, play golf and stay indoors. You are more likely to win Powerball, hit a hole in one and get struck by lightning on the same day.

It is more likely the transmitter/receiver implementation was done incorrectly/poorly. For example the auto engineer may have chosen to use a byte to store/calculate the rolling code which reduces the number of possible codes to 256.

Rolling codes, implemented correctly, mitigates the risk of a replay attack (capturing current code and re-using).

The likelihood of a transmitter randomly sending the correct next rolling code accidentally consistently is VERY low.
Short of an intentional/malicious Rolljam/man in the middle type attack or poor implementation it is highly unlikely this is an RF problem.

The best way to test this is to reseed/re-sync the key fob and car. I don’t know if this is technically feasible in the G’s.

well as I have said, my G80 fob activates the trunk on a Toyota Van owned by a friend, I can replicate this over and over. So to me it is not surprising. If Hyundai implemented this code rolling wrong we will never know. what I do know is that I have seen it first hand that my fob activates the trunk of another make and model.

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

That is a cause and effect argument fallacy. Turning on my windshield wipers does not mean it caused it to rain.