The Genesis Revelation - 11 March, 2014 The Smoking Tire

[landtuna]

And we all know what happened to Oldsmobile and Pontiac.

Up until WWII the different brands within major companies used to mean something in addition to escalating asking prices.

A Chevy was a basic everyman's car and dueled with Ford.
The next step up was an Olds. A bit fancier and pricy.
Pontiac was the "sporty" performance car appealing to the younger crowd.
Buick was owned by doctors and other professionals and competed mostly with Packard.
Then came Cadillac, the supreme luxo brand which competed with Lincoln and Imperial.

Much the same definitions existed at Ford and Chrysler.

GM began using common parts and pieces in the 70's (and got sued for it) and the lines between models began to blur. They blurred so much that models overlapped each other to the point that little trim features and styling niches were all that separated the model line. That is basically why both Pontiac and Olds were dropped (and why Plymouth and Imperial left Chrysler and why one day Mercury will leave Ford). Packard, a once luxo brand, has left us as has Imperial and Lincoln is essentially a optioned-up Ford.

 

[Mark_888]

Still doesn't change the fact that the original MSRP on the LS400 was $35k.

There are owners who still have their original sales sticker for $35k.

(I mean, really, who do you always have to try to take issue w/ things?).

How do you know there are people with original sticker for $35K? I was just quoting the Wikipedia article, and I personally don't know which source is correct. It was not unusual in those days for some Japanese cars to not be available in Base Trim configuration. When I mean not available, I mean no one could buy one, despite what the official pricing said.

 

[sandy]

In 1989 I traded my Acura Legend Coupe for an LS400. While the Legend was my all time favorite car to drive, Lexus offered a level of dealer service that for the time was INCREDIBLE....and a key part of their selling proposition.

For those that recall, the dealer service experience back then for almost all brands was horrible. The Lexus dealer was actually nice to me.

 

[medhat]

The 2 folks I recall buying the first gen LS were former BMW 7-series owners, and both gave the same reason. They were disappointed (I refrain from quoting them directly, it's not PG-rated) with the quality of BMW (at that time) and the service (snooty, it was still during the "ultimate driving machine" days). These guys were both senior management at large Fortune 500 companies in Chicago, and when I spoke with both of them they were overjoyed with the original LS. These were guys that were more trend-setters than followers, and were defined by much more than the brand of car they drove. And boy did they love a bargain. So I don't have a direct experience with someone choosing them over a 5-series or E-class.

I do like to think, in my own little way, I emulate them with the purchase of my Genesis. I can't remember how many times I was asked, "why aren't you buying a BMW?" or "are you ok? did you lose big in the market?". Really people.

So why the poor sales of the Equus and the Phaeton? IMO, I think it's mostly the looks. I simply don't like the look of the Equus, it's like a long wheelbase Genesis, and not a great one at that (a similar argument I've heard about the Jaguar XJ - the old one). And the Phaeton? Sorry, I thought that was simply boring. Teutonic "form follows function" was done lots better by the original Audi 100 (replacement for the 5000). Both cars would be in my budget, but neither even made superficial consideration.

Yes, 4+ years into it I could probably make a handful of suggestions in improving the Genesis, but changing the exterior is not one of them, I still love it! More so than the new design, although I believe it's a matter of personal taste, if folks like/love the new design, go for it. I lean more towards the Kia K900 (apart from the ridiculous "portholes" - so Korean Buick). But hey, you can't have everything!

 

[YEH]

How do you know there are people with original sticker for $35K? I was just quoting the Wikipedia article, and I personally don't know which source is correct. It was not unusual in those days for some Japanese cars to not be available in Base Trim configuration. When I mean not available, I mean no one could buy one, despite what the official pricing said.

There are owners in Lexus forums who have discussed getting the LS400 with the sticker being $35k; and there are numerous sources which cite the $35k starting MSRP.

 

[DRS]

I had a 1993 Q45. The 1994 had just come out with the new grill. I looked at the Lexus but by then the actual selling prices were very different with the LS at about $50K but the demo (6K miles) Q45 around $33K if I remember correctly. I loved that car. One reason I got the Genesis was to get back to V8 torque.

+1

 

[DRS]

I was driving MB 300E back then Until... LS400 at first lower cost and made the 300E a turd compared.

 

[DRS]

We are trend setters... And will be looked like as such. Even with the chaos surrounding naming.

 

[sluggo]

As of July 2, 2011, Hyundai Automotive Group only owns 32.8% of Kia Motors. Hyundai and Kia operate as separate companies, although they have a technology sharing agreement. The GM brands you mentioned above are all 100% owned by GM.

GM and Toyota once made two versions of the basic same car in Freemont CA, but they are separate companies. Chrysler makes the Volkswagen Routan. At one time, Isuzu made the Honda Pilot. There are many other examples.

BTW, the 2009-2011 Genesis V6 used a Aisin 6-speed transmission. Aisin-Warner was a joint venture of Toyota and Borg-Warner to make transmissions for RWD cars like on some Lexus models. Aisin-Warner is now part of Aisin Seiki Co, so Toyota ownership has dropped from 49% to about 30%.

The car business is a lot more complicated these days, and many major parts and components are outsourced or made via joint ventures. No one makes all their parts from scratch anymore.

Ah, I stuck my foot in it. Thanks for the correction - I'd always been under the impression that Kia was simply a second brand in the Hyundai house. I was way off.

Still, as "sharing" goes, this is more than a Ford/Mazda deal, though no quite a rebadging arrangement. We have all of the platforms in the Sonata/Optima lines, the Genesis/K900 line, the Azera/Cadenza line, Equuis/Quoris .. there's probably more. Just saying, Hyundai and Kia run pretty much parallel product strategies and share extensively - may more than just a transmission or engine here or there.

 

[YEH]

The majority if Mazdas/Fords shared platforms and powerplants - they just didn't have as long of a time to build on that relationship as Ford eventually divested.

Nissan/Renault has been a bit slow on the take, but going forward, they will be consolidating and sharing platforms, powerplants, etc.

Marchionne has been much quicker in getting Chrysler and Fiat to share platforms. etc.

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