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TTV6 coming in 2017 or 2018


"But much of the mpg gain is lost when American drivers stomp the gas pedal and enjoy turbos' high performance."

That's what many of us have been saying - if you drive it hard, there is no mpg advantage with the smaller FI motors. However, most of the time, I'm not driving the car hard - so, I can enjoy the benefit of better fuel economy overall. As some have said - there is no free lunch for peformance, but FI engines have the abilty to provide a sort of split personality based on how you drive.

That said, if pure performance is what you're after, an FI V8 is even better than a NA V8 - or a smaller FI engine with energy recovery and hybrid drive like Formula One has done.
 
There are two issues when moving from a V8 to a smaller engine with boost.

1. People like the "boost" and abuse it.
2. It doesn't work well in very heavy vehicles - because you need to use boost too much.

Turbos and superchargers aren't going to work well to replace V8s in "all" applications. I'm not married to boost and I wasn't birthed by boost so I have no emotional connection TO it. However, sense must tell you that your average "car" will benefit in gas mileage while running as a naturally aspirated V6 over a naturally aspirated V8. And while you're out of boost, that's exactly what's happening. If you're going to be "in" boost all the time - you should have stuck with a V8.

Well said.
 
Well said.
Thank you. The thing about #1 is - that wears off over time. If you're into modifying boosted cars you'll know that people love using methanol injection to increase boost as engine temperatures can be kept cooler as a result. With this type of arrangement you have a methanol tank that normally sits in your trunk. People often ask, "How long does the methanol last?" - the answer varies but it always runs out quicker in the beginning because you're happy with the added power and tend to use it more. Eventually the novelty wears off and your methanol lasts longer.

This would be the same thing with boost. Somebody gets out of a V8 and into a boosted six and enjoys the sound and/or feeling of being in boost. But, it eventually wears off and you drive the car like a normal person until you actually need to go fast.
 
Genesis Adding Twin-Turbo V-6 By 2018

Looks like the 5.0 might be going the way of the dinosaur

http://www.automobilemag.com/featur...esis-adding-twin-turbo-v-6-by-2018/index.html

"A report from*Automotive News*details Hyundai's plans to bring turbocharged power to the*Hyundai Genesis*for the 2017 or 2018 model year. The report outlines the plans for a twin-turbo V-6 engine pumping out nearly the same 420 hp of the 5.0-liter V-8 engine in today's Genesis sedan.

In an interview with*Automotive News*CEO of Hyundai North America Dave Zuchowksi said the move toward turbocharging was to help meet stricter fuel-economy regulations. "You're going to see smaller displacement, more use of turbocharging. A lot of it is weight-related, all of it is CAFE-related," he said.

Hyundai has already gone to great lengths to add forced induction to nearly its entire lineup, most recently with the 1.6-liter turbocharged four-cylinder included on the newly revealed*Hyundai Tuscon. The Sonata and Veloster also have turbocharged inline-four engines.

There is no word on the fate of the Tau 5.0-liter V-8 currently available as an option in the Genesis sedan; it is also used as the base engine in both the Equus and the Kia K900, which is related to the last-generation Genesis. If the twin-turbo V-6 can return the same power figures as the V-8 with higher fuel economy and lower weight, the 5.0 may stick around only for the larger Equus.

Rumors have circulated for some time about Hyundai launching a downsized V-6 turbo engine to bridge the gap between the base naturally-aspirated V-6 and the range toping 5.0. It's possible Hyundai could use the Genesis sedan's existing 311-hp, 3.8-liter V-6 as the basis for its twin-turbo engine.

Look for more information on the future of Hyundai turbocharging closer to the debut of the 2017 Genesis."

Source:*Automotive News
 
With respect to the V6 versus V8 the actual weight difference between the 2 cars is 401 lb (4,541 V8 vs 4,138 V6). The difference between the V8 and AWD V6 is 246 lb (4,541 V8 vs 4,295 AWD V6). There are larger wheels/tires/brakes and the CDC suspension on the V8, but i doubt that all weighs much more than, if even, the AWD add-on on the V6 - so we definitely appear to have a significant weight differential on just the motor.
401 pounds for RWD V6 vs. V8, but what trim level for both? Assuming its for a base V6 I could see a good 200 pounds or so of that 401 being accounted for just by adding the panoramic sunroof.
 
401 pounds for RWD V6 vs. V8, but what trim level for both? Assuming its for a base V6 I could see a good 200 pounds or so of that 401 being accounted for just by adding the panoramic sunroof.
Fair question - I forgot the base V6 does not have the sunroof and Hyundai is not clear on this in the weight specs. However, even if weight is parity, a TT still has some benefits against a V8 (and vice versa) has I indicated.
 
You don't need to stage turbos anymore. Two small turbos pretty much do away with any noticeable lag in cars these days - and provide plenty of power. 420hp will be easily achieved with two small turbos.


It won't weigh "a lot" less but it'll be 100 or 200 pounds lighter considering it'll be the 3.3 liter V6 and not the 3.8. Reduced weight will result in lower gas consumption and better handling attributes but the main benefit will be using much less gas when the turbos are not spooled. You'll have V8 power and torque all over the place - and use V8-like gas - when the turbos are spooling. Otherwise you'll be using a V6 just like an ordinary V6...


Not entirely true. Gas use will be much less when you're not spooling the turbos. A V8 is always drinking gas like a V8. A V6 does not until you are pushing the engine for performance. You'll easily save gas with the V6 and still have the V8 power when you want it.


Good sales job for twin turbos. 3.3 verses 3.8 will save a bunch of weight? Really? Is the 3.8 design not just a punched or stroked out 3.3? Is this "new 3.3" based off the 3.3 today? Making they displacement smaller on a same block design does not mean automatically lighter weight.

You still did not stop with the promotion of falsehood about weight of V8... Admitting that the example of the Coyote V8 weight being less than this new 3.3 turbo. The TAU carries many attributes of the Coyote. And I bet close to the same weight.

The added weight to the 5.0 is made up of glass roofs, all the other changes you suggested, and more.. Yes, and a some lbs added for the V8 verses a clean 3.8 (which is based on the 3.3?). Add all the turbo, plumbing, inter coolers, whatever, that V6 will weight within 100lbs of the Tau. Or may weight the same (using the Coyote example).

Look, I get it... You are a turbo V6 or 4 guy. Good for you. Quit trying to convince us of things that are just not so. And quit trying so hard to win the battle over V8 guys. The battle is won. Thanks to .gov and their weeny bully employees who skew the tyrannical environmental measurements to help the "tuner" engineers working at the car companies to end the reign of a good V8. In the meantime, I as a V8 fan (not exclusively) will call out the BS and do my part to have correct history relating to the V8 design.

And I suggest as many people as possible who ever had a inkling for a V8, to go and buy one. It is funny that government motors at least will in the future, keep a V8 for the elites. Those who can afford a CTS-V... Better yet, quit thinking about a Genny, and spend that money on a moderately equipped Z51 Corvette. Which has a EPA rating of 29.456 (approx) mpg. I know several owners who are getting 35+ on highway. Pushrods and all. One of the best overall performance handling and speed demons on the planet at any price. And more comfortable than most comparable competitors. One day soon, no back seat being required, that is where I will go.

In the end, if this vaunted 3.3 gen X environmental turbo turns out to be a more powerful, better sounding, and just better choice than a V8 could ever be, guys like myself are not prideful. We will buy them. Today, as announced, not the case.
 
As the Hyundai CEO said in the article, it is partially about weight, but all about CAFE requirements (for MPG) that are getting stricter each year. So we can all argue about the whether a V8 is better than twin-turbo V6, but in the final analysis it won't make any difference because Hyundai must meet US CAFE requirements.
 
As the Hyundai CEO said in the article, it is partially about weight, but all about CAFE requirements (for MPG) that are getting stricter each year. So we can all argue about the whether a V8 is better than twin-turbo V6, but in the final analysis it won't make any difference because Hyundai must meet US CAFE requirements.

C'mon. How much impact on Hyundai's US Cafe requirements does the few V8 Genesis have?

Its like Corvettes, CTS-V, Mercedes S550, the AMGs, etc. Compare the number of Corvettes sold to Malibus, Impala, etc.

The number of V8 Genesis sold compared to Sonatas, Velosters, etc. is tiny and has little impact on Corporate Average Fuel Economy. See, its "corporate" average.

I'm sure that if Hyundai has $$$ reasons for getting rid of the V8 they will but their fleet average fuel economy won't be the reason.
 
C'mon. How much impact on Hyundai's US Cafe requirements does the few V8 Genesis have?
I was quoting the CEO of Hyundai Motor America, who said that the twin-turbo V6 was partly about weight, and all about CAFE.

If you want his job, check the Hyundai website for to see if there is an opening.
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I love this cartoon. Makes me think of some of these threads.

L2dWv8l.gif
 
Good sales job for twin turbos. 3.3 verses 3.8 will save a bunch of weight? Really? Is the 3.8 design not just a punched or stroked out 3.3? Is this "new 3.3" based off the 3.3 today? Making they displacement smaller on a same block design does not mean automatically lighter weight.

I never said the 3.3 would save a bunch of weight over the 3.8. I only said it would save more weight than the 3.8 would over the 5.0.

You still did not stop with the promotion of falsehood about weight of V8... Admitting that the example of the Coyote V8 weight being less than this new 3.3 turbo. The TAU carries many attributes of the Coyote. And I bet close to the same weight.

The added weight to the 5.0 is made up of glass roofs, all the other changes you suggested, and more.. Yes, and a some lbs added for the V8 verses a clean 3.8 (which is based on the 3.3?). Add all the turbo, plumbing, inter coolers, whatever, that V6 will weight within 100lbs of the Tau. Or may weight the same (using the Coyote example).

Look, I get it... You are a turbo V6 or 4 guy. Good for you. Quit trying to convince us of things that are just not so. And quit trying so hard to win the battle over V8 guys. The battle is won. Thanks to .gov and their weeny bully employees who skew the tyrannical environmental measurements to help the "tuner" engineers working at the car companies to end the reign of a good V8. In the meantime, I as a V8 fan (not exclusively) will call out the BS and do my part to have correct history relating to the V8 design.

I'm actually NOT a V6 or 4 cylinder guy. I prefer a V8 but I realize it's basically going away (the only V8s that'll be available in a few years will be no bigger than V6s in the 80s) and I'm dealing with it. I've driven mostly V8s in my life but unlike you can see the benefit of a V6 with forced induction.

Ultimately you have no choice but to deal with what's coming and if you want to remind everyone of how unfortunate your future is - well - that's your prerogative. In a few years everyone on the internet will be well aware of how depressed you are because you can't drive your V8 without cruising around in some old car with dated technology so you can hold on to the glory of times passed. The rest of us will be driving comfortably in our turbocharged V6s wondering if you'll ever truly find happiness again.

And I suggest as many people as possible who ever had a inkling for a V8, to go and buy one. It is funny that government motors at least will in the future, keep a V8 for the elites. Those who can afford a CTS-V... Better yet, quit thinking about a Genny, and spend that money on a moderately equipped Z51 Corvette. Which has a EPA rating of 29.456 (approx) mpg. I know several owners who are getting 35+ on highway. Pushrods and all. One of the best overall performance handling and speed demons on the planet at any price. And more comfortable than most comparable competitors. One day soon, no back seat being required, that is where I will go.

Been there; done that. It was nice...

In the end, if this vaunted 3.3 gen X environmental turbo turns out to be a more powerful, better sounding, and just better choice than a V8 could ever be, guys like myself are not prideful. We will buy them. Today, as announced, not the case.

C'mon. How much impact on Hyundai's US Cafe requirements does the few V8 Genesis have? Its like Corvettes, CTS-V, Mercedes S550, the AMGs, etc. Compare the number of Corvettes sold to Malibus, Impala, etc. The number of V8 Genesis sold compared to Sonatas, Velosters, etc. is tiny and has little impact on Corporate Average Fuel Economy. See, its "corporate" average.

I'm sure that if Hyundai has $$$ reasons for getting rid of the V8 they will but their fleet average fuel economy won't be the reason.

I say the same thing. I don't believe it's CAFE causing everyone to run away from V8s. There aren't enough people driving them to cause problems for ANY company with CAFE. And EVEN IF IT DID cause a problem and there WAS a fine - the fine is TINY and can easily be passed on to the customer who wants the V8.

Think about it. "CAFE Fee" - no problem! If I want a Dodge Charger Hellcat I'll pay the few hundred dollar fine to have the 6.2 liter supercharged V8. So that CAFE issue is NOT the problem. There's another reason companies are doing this...
 
As the Hyundai CEO said in the article, it is partially about weight, but all about CAFE requirements (for MPG) that are getting stricter each year. So we can all argue about the whether a V8 is better than twin-turbo V6, but in the final analysis it won't make any difference because Hyundai must meet US CAFE requirements.


Yep. Agreed. Because the CAFE requirements rig the tests to promote high strung smaller displacement motors. Not real world, just rigged. Let's see how long Government Motors holds out with the Corvette. They make enough of them to matter. And so far, they are able through cylinder deactivation and GDI to meet the skewed tests. Too bad Hyundai does not have the V8 commitment in our class of car. Too many Gen X and millennials of the sputtering and wheezing segment at Hyundai America are in charge. Just the way it appears to be right now. If I want a turbo, will buy one.. And Hyundai will have to compete in that crowded market.

Had they spent as much time on weight savings for the Genny as this "revolutionary" TT motor, their "CAFE" would be better across the board. And modifying the Tau to get as good or better mileage as the TT V6 would not cost a arm and a leg. Same for the "test" results for CO2 emissions. Cylinder deactivation would have shown as good CAFE results as any wheezer.

I bought the Genny because the V8 made the difference. The defining factor for a good/great car. Anyone nowadays can get a turbo something. That will be soon lost if those TT fans have their way to defeat the V8 supporters..
 
That will be soon lost if those TT fans have their way to defeat the V8 supporters..
No one is defeating anyone - if the market for the V8 was large enough and profitable enough, Hyundai would figure out a way to make one that was more efficient. The truth is that the market is not so large as most folks are more than satisfied with the performance of smaller displacement FI engines - so there is no large consumer force screaming for large NA V8's in a car like the Genesis.
 
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No one is defeating anyone - if the market for the V8 was large enough and profitable enough, Hyundai would figure out a way to make one that was more efficient. The truth is that the market is not so large as most folks are more than satisfied with the performance of smaller displacement FI engines - so there is no large consumer force screaming for large NA V8's in a car like the Genesis.


Maybe, maybe not... I have confidence in the American soul. Will always yearn, even if not understood, for a V8... Once it is gone, grousing will begin from those who decide "gee I could have had a V8". But no longer available. And the Feds are enticing and forcing the hands of the makers through. Skewed CAFE/EPA test standards, and and their opinion buzzy small stressed engines are the only way to go.
 
I was quoting the CEO of Hyundai Motor America, who said that the twin-turbo V6 was partly about weight, and all about CAFE.

If you want his job, check the Hyundai website for to see if there is an opening.

Do you believe everything your car salesman tells you? That's who this guy is, a car salesman.
 
Do you believe everything your car salesman tells you? That's who this guy is, a car salesman.
He is a marketing guy, not a salesman. There is a difference between marketing and sales.

I don't always believe everything I am told, but I am trying to figure out what possible motivation the HMA CEO would have for lying about that. If it is not CAFE, then what other reason would they replace a perfectly good V8 with a V6 twin-turbo.
 
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