TTV6 coming in 2017 or 2018

[amartz]

And I also agree that Hyundai simply doesn't want to build V8s anymore because not enough people want them.

Well, if they'd but the V8 in the coupe, that might change things!

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Well, if they'd but the V8 in the coupe, that might change things!

It's a nice thought but it wouldn't change anything. All cars with the option of a V6 or V8 sell more of the V6. Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, Charger, E-Class, 5-Series, this, that, the other one. The cheaper one always sells more. Since not enough people are buying V8s, they're going away.

Maybe it's just more politically correct "for the company" to say they're moving to smaller engines because of CAFE. It certainly sounds better than, "nobody wants the V8".

 

[amartz]

Maybe it's just more politically correct "for the company" to say they're moving to smaller engines because of CAFE. It certainly sounds better than, "nobody wants the V8".

Just to offer a different take on "nobody wants a V8"...:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=qRtDWSB3gEeyN0FL7EkLJw&bvm=bv.90237346,d.b2w

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=XB7B8cEyIWHCDUeVb7g9Hw&bvm=bv.90237346,d.b2w

 

[Sal Collaziano]

You realize I didn't literally mean that "no body" wants a V8. Right? When somebody says, "Oh, nobody likes the Toyota Corolla" - that person pretty much knows that some people do like it... The Hellcat cars are very special. They'll sell every one they make. But they're certainly not going to outsell V6 Chargers and Challengers...

Just to offer a different take on "nobody wants a V8"...:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=qRtDWSB3gEeyN0FL7EkLJw&bvm=bv.90237346,d.b2w

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=XB7B8cEyIWHCDUeVb7g9Hw&bvm=bv.90237346,d.b2w

 

[Midnightsun]

The V8 will never die. It is pure American muscle car heritage/icon. They will become rare and get much bigger dollars way down the road compared to a V6 equipped vehicle. Kinda like my 96 Mercedes Sl320, not many are looking for those, everyone wants the V8 version and are willing pay much more for the option.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

The V8 will never die. It is pure American muscle car heritage/icon. They will become rare and get much bigger dollars way down the road compared to a V6 equipped vehicle. Kinda like my 96 Mercedes Sl320, not many are looking for those, everyone wants the V8 version and are willing pay much more for the option.

It might be around for a long, long time but it's not going to last forever and it's going to get really small before it completely goes away...

 

[Midnightsun]

You mean small like a V6?

 

[RSPEC429]

There's demand for V8s in certain vehicles. Think muscle cars, full sized luxury vehicles, etc. For something like the Genesis, the demand is obviously not there. Look at Jaguar moving to a supercharged V6 from an NA V8 in the XF, or MB going from a FI V8 in the E550 to a FI V6 in the E400. Hyundai is now doing the same thing. While I love V8s, large auto manufacturers DO NOT make money by pandering to hot headed personalities hiding behind a computer screen on internet forums. Sure, we'll by them, but we do not constitute an entire market. V8s make economic sense for manufacturers in some vehicle markets while they don't in others. DRS, unless you're a top auto executive and COMPLETELY in the know, stop spouting off word vomit. While I am certainly not a CAFE advocate, gas prices alone has caused consumers to demand high fuel economy. I'm willing to bet that with zero government interference, we would be seeing the same thing happening.

 

[Monolith2001]

The V8 will never die. It is pure American muscle car heritage/icon. They will become rare and get much bigger dollars way down the road compared to a V6 equipped vehicle. Kinda like my 96 Mercedes Sl320, not many are looking for those, everyone wants the V8 version and are willing pay much more for the option.

Kinda funny to hear about American heritage/icon being applied to a Korean V8.

On topic...there will always be a market for V8s simply because some people are romantic about them or just can't see past what they are use to. For the vast majority of car buyers (of mainstream vehicles), the engine is just a means to an end and if people can get the performance they want for a price they are happy with, that's what they will get.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

You mean small like a V6?

Exactly! Mercedes-Benz just moved their AMG vehicles from a 6.2 liter V8 to a 5.5 liter twin turbo V8 to now a 4.0 liter twin turbo V8. 4.0 liters. Do you remember the GM 4.3 liter V6 of the 80s? Sure, you can have a V8. A 2.0 liter V8 in about 10 years.

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[YEH]

Going to take this newest info. w/ a grain of salt (until hear further confirmation), but according to tKCB, the new Hyundai RWD coupe will be offered w/ 3 powerplants.

1. 2.0T
2. NA 3.8 V6
3. 3.3TT V6

The 3.3TT will be for the N-performance line and tKCB is stating that they were told around 480HP for this particular set-up (a bit skeptical - 440-450HP seems more realistic), so around 400-420HP for the Genesis sedan seems likely and not the 365HP that was seen in a prototype engine (which wasn't enough of a bump over the 3.8 V6 or to replace the NA Tau).

http://thekoreancarblog.com/2015/04/08/exclusive-new-hyundai-genesis-coupe-surpass-400hp-mark/

Now, this would make it seem that Hyundai is abandoning the V8, but if they are truly serious about competing at the higher end of the luxury/performance market, the TTV6 wouldn't be enough (a 3.3TT Genesis would akin to the CTS V-Sport and not the CTS-V or the M5).

So, the question remains, will H/K invest in smaller displacement/FI V8 to replace the Tau and be offered as engine in the Genesis-N (and not the equivalent of an N-Sport) and the top line engine in the Equus and K900?

Pre-update to the 3.8 engine (before it got GDI and the HP bump), the take take for the Tau-equipped Genesis was around 40% (which was incredibly high, but that was before has prices spiked so, I'm thinking closer to 30% when gas prices went up).

But after the change to the 3.8GDI, the take rate for the Tau dropped to around 25% (in part due to the continued high price of gas).

Now, with the 2G Genesis being offered w/ the H-TRAC system only on the V6, the take rate for the V8 probably dropped to below 20% (now, this doesn't necessarily mean that V8 sales have dropped significantly on a nos. basis, as Genesis sedan sales have increased).

The addition of a TTV6, however, should further decrease V8 sales.

But on the other side of the coin, the next gen Equus and K900 should see an increase in sales, but would they be enough to justify a new V8 (H/K could keep the Tau around, after all, Toyota/Lexus has kept the same 4.6L V8 on the LS for over a decade)?

 

[Midnightsun]

Exactly! Mercedes-Benz just moved their AMG vehicles from a 6.2 liter V8 to a 5.5 liter twin turbo V8 to now a 4.0 liter twin turbo V8. 4.0 liters. Do you remember the GM 4.3 liter V6 of the 80s? Sure, you can have a V8. A 2.0 liter V8 in about 10 years.

And why have they done this? Answer is size is taxed and frowned upon by government and the general public who are to stupid to realize it's hp, not size that consumes. You cannot change physics, a gallon of gasoline produces X power no matter if it is blown or naturally aspirated. Good example is I pay a $141 large displacement tax every year on my plates, this goes up as the CC's go up. Here is a link. http://www.saaq.gouv.qc.ca/en/vehicle_registration/cylindersize.php My neighbour with his 3L twin turbo m3 6 cylinder which develops 425hp and 406lbs of torque skips this tax, makes perfect sense right? NOT. The manufacturers are also taxed and or penalized in the similar way through CAFE. In time when all the big displacement engines are less than 4L and producing gobs of untaxed HP they will want their taxes they lost and find new ways which will most likely be the weight/hp ratio, mark my words, it's coming.

Another good example is a Ford F150. One has a 5.0 and the other a 3.6 turbo. Both consume the same and are equivalent yet the 5.0 is penalized through penalties and taxation.

 

[DRS]

The way I see it, it's important to enjoy what we have now and not concentrate too much on how bad the future will be. I tried, for years, talking sense into people about things but people just look at you like you're crazy. There is no hope. The way I see it, if people want to assume everything is fine - than they deserve what is coming to them.

V8s are nice but they're going away and stressing out about it, here, day after day, isn't going to change that. All it's going to do is cause people more stress. Unless that's the intended outcome, why keep talking about the same thing over and over again? Americans are too concerned with Football and Dancing With The Stars. Nobody cares about freedom or anything else anymore.

It's not worth stressing about. What's done is done. Enjoy what's left of the good life before something happens (for example, maybe your health gives way) and you cannot enjoy it anymore. Enjoy what little time you have left with the way things are NOW. That's what I do...

I get that. And in the end of the day, that is what happens in my world... That is why I bought another Genny (2015 V8 Ulitmate) and am keeping the 2012 Tau. With that said, it is ok to place some dramatic (yet real) for effect thoughts out there. Hope to shake some folks out of their fog and at least admit, like you, the plight that currently is beyond our control. Once awareness comes forth, never know future action.... as an illustration, we could come out of our fog like Bruce Willis did in his character in the cult fan movie Surrogates. Melting the whole thing down, and starting over. And of course the classic with the Guy Fawkes mask in V For Vendetta. Serious, you are correct.. At this time, it is over.. Enjoy it before the night comes.

 

[ksoze]

Enjoy it before the night comes.

Time to stock up on motor oil? I am not getting how moving to more efficient, powerful engines is shutting out the sun. This is like the BMW and MB forums years ago when both they changed over to blown engines. Months later, it was on to something else.

 

[DRS]

It's a nice thought but it wouldn't change anything. All cars with the option of a V6 or V8 sell more of the V6. Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, Charger, E-Class, 5-Series, this, that, the other one. The cheaper one always sells more. Since not enough people are buying V8s, they're going away.

Maybe it's just more politically correct "for the company" to say they're moving to smaller engines because of CAFE. It certainly sounds better than, "nobody wants the V8".

I disagree no one wants a V8. If people actually knew about a V8 Genny, more would be bought. That is a Hyundai problem. If the dealers were on a whole actually better at local promotion and selling on site the Genny, any version, more V8s would be sold. There are so many models in the industry, this car in buried in a sea of irrelevant choices.

It is not because of low sales... They capitulated to their overlord handlers. Getting on the bandwagon of lemming compliance. One culture battle in Korea deals with innovation and creativity, verses the other of compliance, unity, reaction, first to follow rules without question. And the rules coming today? V8, coal, virile white Christian men, nuclear anything, independence, oil, and anything dealing with liberty, are being ruled out of existence. This V8 verses big plumbing V6 issue is a microcosm of the larger picture (or many suggest a actual war effort against items mentioned being ruled out of existence). Just the way it is... No explaining that away..

 

[GenesisCaptain]

I disagree with everyone here. (Not really, but it is fun to say.)

I do not think that big, high-performance engine options are going away any time soon. Sure, the nature of those big engines may change a bit, but car makers will probably always have an option for a big engine in the U.S. market. The big engine options are halo cars-- few are sold relative to other choices, but they elevate the brand as a whole. BMW, MB, Audi still offer 12 cylinder engines. And Audi, BMW, Cadillac, and others are still playing with 16 cylinder engines. Before the V8s go away, we need to get rid of the V16 and V12 engines, and those do not seem to be fading yet.

I really do not get all the vitriol directed toward forced induction engines in these threads. It is as if the people ranting have never set foot in a car with a modern forced induction gasoline engine. (Diesel trucks don't count.) The current class of FI engines, that started hitting the market about 10 years ago, are massively superior to the normally aspirated engines they replaced. I cannot imagine that anyone would honestly want to regress to the engine performance of the 90s over what is available right now.

Personally, I cannot wait for a better engine than what I have now. I do not like the V6 as a daily driver-- it is torqueless at the bottom end of the RPM range. And it is noisy and unbalanced. You know what would fix it? An FI V6 (mostly) or any V8. Given the choice between the current V8 and an FI V6, I would choose the FI V6, because the incremental performance difference is not enough to justify the weight and cost of the V8. But, if Hyundai FIs the V8, then my next Genesis would be an FI V8.

 

[Mark_888]

Only calling out those who use the quotes in attempt to win a faux argument. If you were just quoting for quoting, ok..

I personally don't care whether Hyundai keeps the V8, or replaces it with a V6 twin turbo. I would not purchase either one, as the regular V6 is fine for me.

I am not trying to win any argument, although I am not sure why the CEO would lie about the reason for the V6 twin-turbo. I can sometimes see why Hyundai might lie about other stuff, but not sure about this one. If someone can come up with a theory as to why the CEO claimed the V6 twin-turbo is "all about CAFE" and that is not true, I would be glad to hear it.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

The 3.3TT will be for the N-performance line and tKCB is stating that they were told around 480HP for this particular set-up (a bit skeptical - 440-450HP seems more realistic), so around 400-420HP for the Genesis sedan seems likely and not the 365HP that was seen in a prototype engine (which wasn't enough of a bump over the 3.8 V6 or to replace the NA Tau).

http://thekoreancarblog.com/2015/04/08/exclusive-new-hyundai-genesis-coupe-surpass-400hp-mark/

Now, this would make it seem that Hyundai is abandoning the V8, but if they are truly serious about competing at the higher end of the luxury/performance market, the TTV6 wouldn't be enough (a 3.3TT Genesis would akin to the CTS V-Sport and not the CTS-V or the M5).

So, the question remains, will H/K invest in smaller displacement/FI V8 to replace the Tau and be offered as engine in the Genesis-N (and not the equivalent of an N-Sport) and the top line engine in the Equus and K900?

480hp is definitely possible with the 3.3 liter twin turbo V6 but you're probably right - it'll probably be around 450hp at best. Reason being - room for improvement later on...

I'm sure they'll keep the Tau 5.0 around for awhile. As you mentioned about Lexus and their V8 being used for so long - it's just fine the way it is. Weak for the segment it competes in - but good enough to satisfy their customers...

And why have they done this? Answer is size is taxed and frowned upon by government and the general public who are to stupid to realize it's hp, not size that consumes. You cannot change physics, a gallon of gasoline produces X power no matter if it is blown or naturally aspirated. Good example is I pay a $141 large displacement tax every year on my plates, this goes up as the CC's go up. Here is a link. http://www.saaq.gouv.qc.ca/en/vehicle_registration/cylindersize.php My neighbour with his 3L twin turbo m3 6 cylinder which develops 425hp and 406lbs of torque skips this tax, makes perfect sense right? NOT. The manufacturers are also taxed and or penalized in the similar way through CAFE. In time when all the big displacement engines are less than 4L and producing gobs of untaxed HP they will want their taxes they lost and find new ways which will most likely be the weight/hp ratio, mark my words, it's coming.

Another good example is a Ford F150. One has a 5.0 and the other a 3.6 turbo. Both consume the same and are equivalent yet the 5.0 is penalized through penalties and taxation.

The advantage I see for a V6 with forced induction over a V8 with equal power is that during normal driving the V6 will achieve better gas mileage. When push for performance, they'll use the same amount of gas. Since you cannot possibly always drive a car hard everywhere you go, logic concludes that the V6, when driven normally, will give you better gas mileage. If you're not in boost, it's just a V6. If you're IN boost - it's using gas like a V8...

Hope to shake some folks out of their fog and at least admit, like you, the plight that currently is beyond our control.

Maybe you just haven't tried for long enough. Eventually you'll give up and just let everyone suffer from their own blindness.

I disagree no one wants a V8. If people actually knew about a V8 Genny, more would be bought. That is a Hyundai problem. If the dealers were on a whole actually better at local promotion and selling on site the Genny, any version, more V8s would be sold. There are so many models in the industry, this car in buried in a sea of irrelevant choices.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. You're saying that when people go to buy a Genesis they're not told, by the salesperson, about the more expensive V8? You don't really believe this... They know about the V8 - they just don't want it because it costs more.

It's the same thing with the Camaro, Mustang or the rest of them... The V6 sells massively more than the V8. And everybody knows these cars come with a V8 - without even being told or upsold...

I disagree with everyone here. (Not really, but it is fun to say.)

I do not think that big, high-performance engine options are going away any time soon. Sure, the nature of those big engines may change a bit, but car makers will probably always have an option for a big engine in the U.S. market. The big engine options are halo cars-- few are sold relative to other choices, but they elevate the brand as a whole. BMW, MB, Audi still offer 12 cylinder engines. And Audi, BMW, Cadillac, and others are still playing with 16 cylinder engines. Before the V8s go away, we need to get rid of the V16 and V12 engines, and those do not seem to be fading yet.

I really do not get all the vitriol directed toward forced induction engines in these threads. It is as if the people ranting have never set foot in a car with a modern forced induction gasoline engine. (Diesel trucks don't count.) The current class of FI engines, that started hitting the market about 10 years ago, are massively superior to the normally aspirated engines they replaced. I cannot imagine that anyone would honestly want to regress to the engine performance of the 90s over what is available right now.

Personally, I cannot wait for a better engine than what I have now. I do not like the V6 as a daily driver-- it is torqueless at the bottom end of the RPM range. And it is noisy and unbalanced. You know what would fix it? An FI V6 (mostly) or any V8. Given the choice between the current V8 and an FI V6, I would choose the FI V6, because the incremental performance difference is not enough to justify the weight and cost of the V8. But, if Hyundai FIs the V8, then my next Genesis would be an FI V8.

I don't get the hatred for boosted V6s either. Some people just won't ever come around. What can you do? I'm sure the V8 will be around for awhile but it's going to get smaller and smaller. But it's not going away right now... So enjoy it while it lasts. I'm sure the next generation Genesis and Equus will have an option for a V8.

 

[jimb100]

And the rules coming today? V8, coal, virile white Christian men, nuclear anything, independence, oil, and anything dealing with liberty, are being ruled out of existence. This V8 verses big plumbing V6 issue is a microcosm of the larger picture (or many suggest a actual war effort against items mentioned being ruled out of existence). Just the way it is... No explaining that away..

OK, lets take them one at a time.

V8-What's inevitable is that in 10-15 years we'll all be chauffeured around in GPS guided, self driving electric cars. Save your V8 (or twin turbo) and trailer it to the racetrack where you can drive it all you want.

Coal - bad for the environment, don't say you're a climate change denier as that will blow all your credibility.

Nuclear - until they figure out what to do with spent fuel rods and make plants safer (Chernobyl, Japan, 3 Mile) nuclear will continue to be dangerous. Most people, maybe not you, wouldn't want to live any where near a nuclear plant.

Christian men- I don't see any internment camps for christian men. As long as Washington and Wall St are full of them I think you'll be OK.

Liberty - We live in an oligarchy and have since the revolution. When the Supreme Court allowed unlimited money in politics it ensured that would never change. The freedom to control many aspects of daily life will not change. Things that affect taxes on the wealthy will be made so that taxes are lower.

If you would enjoy a war effort, make it against the militarized police state, government surveillance, judicial injustice, bribing legislators with unlimited PAC money and promises of lucrative jobs after politics.

You know, things that would actually make a positive difference.

 

[jimb100]

I personally don't care whether Hyundai keeps the V8, or replaces it with a V6 twin turbo. I would not purchase either one, as the regular V6 is fine for me.

I am not trying to win any argument, although I am not sure why the CEO would lie about the reason for the V6 twin-turbo. I can sometimes see why Hyundai might lie about other stuff, but not sure about this one. If someone can come up with a theory as to why the CEO claimed the V6 twin-turbo is "all about CAFE" and that is not true, I would be glad to hear it.

Simplest reason - He just didn't want to say "We make more money if the 5.0 V8 goes away, and its all about making money. But some people like the 5.0 V8 so I'll make it sound like we have no choice and tell them we have a replacement that is just as good or better, anyway."

Next reason - I am an executive at a car company and I have been taught since I started in business 'Why tell the truth when a lie will do'.

Next reason - I just say what the higher ups tell me to say. I'm not sure I know what it means, but it sounds good and I can say it with conviction as that's a big part of my job.

I shouldn't think that would be so hard to understand.