TTV6 coming in 2017 or 2018

[Nikgen]

Not bad. So, I'll lease a '15 V8 now and turn it it for a hopefully just as powerful but more fuel efficient '18. [emoji106]

Assuming they actually go this way, the more fuel efficient part would be very dependant on how you drive it...

 

[Sal Collaziano]

He is a marketing guy, not a salesman. There is a difference between marketing and sales.

I don't always believe everything I am told, but I am trying to figure out what possible motivation the HMA CEO would have for lying about that. If it is not CAFE, then what other reason would they replace a perfectly good V8 with a V6 twin-turbo.

Perhaps, as mentioned, not enough people are buying it. I have little doubt the Equus will offer the boosted 3.3 liter V6 and if 95% of people are buying it over the 5.0 liter Tau V8 - guess what's going to happen...

 

[Mark_888]

There has been some discussion about CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards, after I quoted the Hyundai Motor America CEO as saying that CAFE is the main reason they are pursuing a V6 twin-turbo.

One thing I found out doing a little research is that the CAFE fines, currently $5.5 for each 0.1 MPG over the standard, are for the entire fleet, not just those cars which exceed the standard. The CAFE number has to be achieved as an average for all cars that are sold in the US by a particular manufacturer. So if Hyundai was 1 MPG over the standard, and if they sold 700,000 cars per year in the USA (as they did in 2014), they would have to pay $38.5 million in fines.

MB has paid the fine for their entire fleet, about $120 per car. In the future they may not be able to pay the fine, but "may" have to purchase credits from other manufacturers who are under the CAFE standard.

CAFE standards will be rising steadily over the next 10 years. For 2015, a car the size of MB S Class must have an average MPG of 23 MPG (EPA Window Sticker average MPG) to avoid fines. By 2018 that will be 26 MPG, and by 2025 it will need to be 34 MPG average.

A small car the size of a Honda Fit currently must average 29 MPG EPA average, by 2018 34 MPG, and by 2025 43 MPG.

Gas guzzler taxes are only paid on those cars which exceed the limits for that tax (not the entire fleet).

 

[RSPEC429]

It's worth noting that the CAFE fuel economy numbers are based on the older, outdated testing methods from the 70s. So for example, that 54.5 MPG figure that is often touted, will realistically, read EPA test figures, be around 49.6 MPG.

Here's some good reading for those that care:

http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...e-of-the-new-fuel-economy-regulations-feature

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/faq-new-corporate-average-fuel-economy-standards.html

http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver...epa-a-tale-of-two-fuel-economy-standards.html

 

[Midnightsun]

There has been some discussion about CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards, after I quoted the Hyundai Motor America CEO as saying that CAFE is the main reason they are pursuing a V6 twin-turbo.

One thing I found out doing a little research is that the CAFE fines, currently $5.5 for each 0.1 MPG over the standard, are for the entire fleet, not just those cars which exceed the standard. The CAFE number has to be achieved as an average for all cars that are sold in the US by a particular manufacturer. So if Hyundai was 1 MPG over the standard, and if they sold 700,000 cars per year in the USA (as they did in 2014), they would have to pay $38.5 million in fines.

MB has paid the fine for their entire fleet, about $120 per car. In the future they may not be able to pay the fine, but "may" have to purchase credits from other manufacturers who are under the CAFE standard.

CAFE standards will be rising steadily over the next 10 years. For 2015, a car the size of MB S Class must have an average MPG of 23 MPG (EPA Window Sticker average MPG) to avoid fines. By 2018 that will be 26 MPG, and by 2025 it will need to be 34 MPG average.

A small car the size of a Honda Fit currently must average 29 MPG EPA average, by 2018 34 MPG, and by 2025 43 MPG.

Gas guzzler taxes are only paid on those cars which exceed the limits for that tax (not the entire fleet).

Interesting, thanks.

 

[PMCErnie]

And it came to pass that the remaining two thousand V8 lovers moved to a remote mountain in Idaho. There they smoked cigars, ate heavily marbled beef, drank craft beer and single malt scotch. Delighted cries of "Get off my lawn whimp!" often filled the air and gunpowder smoke was as common as the wood smoke from their fireplaces. They had found paradise.

 

[Midnightsun]

And it came to pass that the remaining two thousand V8 lovers moved to a remote mountain in Idaho. There they smoked cigars, ate heavily marbled beef, drank craft beer and single malt scotch. Delighted cries of "Get off my lawn whimp!" often filled the air and gunpowder smoke was as common as the wood smoke from their fireplaces. They had found paradise.

Yep, I could do that, Love that Wagyu beef.

 

[Mark_888]

It's worth noting that the CAFE fuel economy numbers are based on the older, outdated testing methods from the 70s. So for example, that 54.5 MPG figure that is often touted, will realistically, read EPA test figures, be around 49.6 MPG.

That is correct, which is why I quoted the EPA equivalent numbers (city/highway combined averge) in my post above.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Maybe there will be some wealthy entrepreneur who starts a company that replaces factory engines with V8s or better and covers engine-specific issues under their own warranty without putting the factory warranty in jeopardy.

 

[DRS]

There has been some discussion about CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards, after I quoted the Hyundai Motor America CEO as saying that CAFE is the main reason they are pursuing a V6 twin-turbo.



One thing I found out doing a little research is that the CAFE fines, currently $5.5 for each 0.1 MPG over the standard, are for the entire fleet, not just those cars which exceed the standard. The CAFE number has to be achieved as an average for all cars that are sold in the US by a particular manufacturer. So if Hyundai was 1 MPG over the standard, and if they sold 700,000 cars per year in the USA (as they did in 2014), they would have to pay $38.5 million in fines.



MB has paid the fine for their entire fleet, about $120 per car. In the future they may not be able to pay the fine, but "may" have to purchase credits from other manufacturers who are under the CAFE standard.



CAFE standards will be rising steadily over the next 10 years. For 2015, a car the size of MB S Class must have an average MPG of 23 MPG (EPA Window Sticker average MPG) to avoid fines. By 2018 that will be 26 MPG, and by 2025 it will need to be 34 MPG average.



A small car the size of a Honda Fit currently must average 29 MPG EPA average, by 2018 34 MPG, and by 2025 43 MPG.



Gas guzzler taxes are only paid on those cars which exceed the limits for that tax (not the entire fleet).

You are assuming this V6 has better economy in real world. And that they are not able to spend that money to put cylinder deactivation and other tech on the TAU to meet the skewed standards. Ford has given up. Too many wheezer cultists there. GM still has faith in the V8 in certain performance cars, and is spending money to keep it up.. Chrysler seems to not give a damn about wheezing cultists in .gov bully machine. Full speed ahead for the final years of the hemi V8. And they have cylinder deactivation to meet the skewed CO2 crap in the EPA and CAFE tests.

Solve the problem. Do not fall into the group speak. This is a plot to end masculine V8s. Period. As Obama was quoted "anyone who wants to build a coal power plant or a large displacement motor, good luck with that. You will we will not make them viable."

What you say is accurate about the ever over reaching bullies and tyrants in .gov. They will choose for us what we get to buy. And NA V8 is not on the list. Only the elite like Obama hypocrite friends (or Crybaby Boner Boehner elite friends) will be able to afford the ultra low production TT V8 or whatever. Which at such low numbers will not screw up the CAFE and EPA standards enough. They get their choices. WE get the shaft.. Unless you have $250k laying around. Our founding fathers would have been burning every .gov building to the ground by now. We? We argue over faux statements that this uber plumbing TT V6 is lighter than a TAU or Coyote.

You see what is happening. The CT6 has a FOUR cylinder as standard. That is the future once we his end of this decade and further. This 4700 lbs, almost the same weight as a Base Coupe DeVille in 1966, running around with a 2.0. While options for TT V6 are available, by 2025, we will be whining where did the V6 go...

Solve the problem. It is not us and what we choose. We are being led by the nose by our overlords.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[Mark_888]

You are assuming this V6 has better economy in real world.

I am not assuming anything. I just quoted the CEO of Hyundai Motor America. Please don't shoot the messenger.

 

[DRS]

It's worth noting that the CAFE fuel economy numbers are based on the older, outdated testing methods from the 70s. So for example, that 54.5 MPG figure that is often touted, will realistically, read EPA test figures, be around 49.6 MPG.



Here's some good reading for those that care:



http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...e-of-the-new-fuel-economy-regulations-feature



http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/faq-new-corporate-average-fuel-economy-standards.html



http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver...epa-a-tale-of-two-fuel-economy-standards.html[

And it continues... The EPA standards, with CO2 limits (what we exhale, remember..our flesh is the biggest human contributor. Get ready for personal CO2 quotas. Sounds nutty today, but will not in a decade..)

 

[Mark_888]

Maybe there will be some wealthy entrepreneur who starts a company that replaces factory engines with V8s or better and covers engine-specific issues under their own warranty without putting the factory warranty in jeopardy.

Maybe people should not vote for a Democratic president or Congress, and there is a chance that the CAFE standards can be rolled back.

 

[DRS]

Maybe there will be some wealthy entrepreneur who starts a company that replaces factory engines with V8s or better and covers engine-specific issues under their own warranty without putting the factory warranty in jeopardy.

Nope... Feds will not allow these kind of modifications. Just ask the boating industry. And what their outboards are being choked when it comes to mods and soon, engine swaps. You need to look ahead and understand those that think they are smarter than you will stop you at every turn.

 

[DRS]

I am not assuming anything. I just quoted the CEO of Hyundai Motor America. Please don't shoot the messenger.

Only calling out those who use the quotes in attempt to win a faux argument. If you were just quoting for quoting, ok..

 

[Nikgen]

It's worth noting that the CAFE fuel economy numbers are based on the older, outdated testing methods from the 70s. So for example, that 54.5 MPG figure that is often touted, will realistically, read EPA test figures, be around 49.6 MPG.



Here's some good reading for those that care:



http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...e-of-the-new-fuel-economy-regulations-feature



http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/faq-new-corporate-average-fuel-economy-standards.html



http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver...epa-a-tale-of-two-fuel-economy-standards.html[

And it continues... The EPA standards, with CO2 limits (what we exhale, remember..our flesh is the biggest human contributor. Get ready for personal CO2 quotas. Sounds nutty today, but will not in a decade..)

Methane is even worse as a greenhouse gas - wait for the flatulence quotas!

 

[DRS]

Yep, I could do that, Love that Wagyu beef.

May come to those holly huddles down in the spider wholes for some... Not for the rest of us.. If history is a judge, there will be burning man celebrations at some point in every city and capital. What will be burning? Geldings, feminazis, busybodies, and their buildings they infested. [emoji41] we will see how brave folks are.. Or will be sucked into the European like abyss. Or more likely, like Rome, Spain, and most of the Med, in days long past, the shroud wearing barbarians will walk right in and what is left of us will not lift a finger. for those flipping out, chill.. Using some humor and illustrations of history.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

The way I see it, it's important to enjoy what we have now and not concentrate too much on how bad the future will be. I tried, for years, talking sense into people about things but people just look at you like you're crazy. There is no hope. The way I see it, if people want to assume everything is fine - than they deserve what is coming to them.

V8s are nice but they're going away and stressing out about it, here, day after day, isn't going to change that. All it's going to do is cause people more stress. Unless that's the intended outcome, why keep talking about the same thing over and over again? Americans are too concerned with Football and Dancing With The Stars. Nobody cares about freedom or anything else anymore.

It's not worth stressing about. What's done is done. Enjoy what's left of the good life before something happens (for example, maybe your health gives way) and you cannot enjoy it anymore. Enjoy what little time you have left with the way things are NOW. That's what I do...

 

[jimb100]

He is a marketing guy, not a salesman. There is a difference between marketing and sales.

I don't always believe everything I am told, but I am trying to figure out what possible motivation the HMA CEO would have for lying about that. If it is not CAFE, then what other reason would they replace a perfectly good V8 with a V6 twin-turbo.

First off, its not CAFE as has been previously shown. The small number of V8's sold have too little impact.

Speculating on why - they sell too few V8s and its getting too expensive to keep offering the option.

Selling the Genesis with only 1 engine choice saves money and helps keep the car priced so far below MB, Audi and Lexus they can gain market share.

Going forward, they don't want to continue development of the V8. As it sits, it needs to be lighter, smaller and faster revving. It would benefit from cylinder deactivation. Hyundai doesn't want to invest development money.

I worked in both sales and marketing for 30 years. When a marketing manager is speaking in front of the public, he's selling. Selling an idea, selling a rationale or selling a product, he's selling. He's not 'marketing'.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

I agree that it's not CAFE because there just aren't enough V8s selling to make a difference. And I also agree that Hyundai simply doesn't want to build V8s anymore because not enough people want them. It'll save them money to concentrate on making V6s perform LIKE V8s because people, apparently, want them more than V8. This makes sense to me...