TTV6 coming in 2017 or 2018

[RSPEC429]

DRS, you make it sound as if the government is stiff arming auto manufacturers in to halting production on V8s; they are not. If the industry saw adequate demand for V8s, they would make V8s that met CAFE standards. They would make it happen, because like you say, it's possible. Since Hyundai is in the business of making money however, it's apparent that their analysis shows that an FI V6 will make more economical sense for them than a V8. Unless you're a top auto executive in the know, stop spouting word vomit.

 

[DRS]

And why have they done this? Answer is size is taxed and frowned upon by government and the general public who are to stupid to realize it's hp, not size that consumes. You cannot change physics, a gallon of gasoline produces X power no matter if it is blown or naturally aspirated. Good example is I pay a $141 large displacement tax every year on my plates, this goes up as the CC's go up. Here is a link. http://www.saaq.gouv.qc.ca/en/vehicle_registration/cylindersize.php My neighbour with his 3L twin turbo m3 6 cylinder which develops 425hp and 406lbs of torque skips this tax, makes perfect sense right? NOT. The manufacturers are also taxed and or penalized in the similar way through CAFE. In time when all the big displacement engines are less than 4L and producing gobs of untaxed HP they will want their taxes they lost and find new ways which will most likely be the weight/hp ratio, mark my words, it's coming.

Another good example is a Ford F150. One has a 5.0 and the other a 3.6 turbo. Both consume the same and are equivalent yet the 5.0 is penalized through penalties and taxation.

+1

 

[DRS]

DRS, you make it sound as if the government is stiff arming auto manufacturers in to halting production on V8s; they are not. If the industry saw adequate demand for V8s, they would make V8s that met CAFE standards. They would make it happen, because like you say, it's possible. Since Hyundai is in the business of making money however, it's apparent that their analysis shows that an FI V6 will make more economical sense for them than a V8. Unless you're a top auto executive in the know, stop spouting word vomit.

Only word vomit is you, staring at screen internet typer... You are a hoot.. It is as I say...

 

[RSPEC429]

Only word vomit is you, staring at screen internet typer... You are a hoot.. It is as I say...

Hahaha. Do you really believe that auto companies are passing up the opportunity to make money by skipping the V8s in offerings where V8s are not absolutely necessary? Like I said, if there was money to be made with V8s in certain applications, manufacturers would make it happen.

Again, although we love V8s, catering to some guys on an internet forum is not a legitimate business model.

 

[DRS]

Auto companies are dumping V8s for the reasons I have already stated.

 

[Mark_888]

Simplest reason - He just didn't want to say "We make more money if the 5.0 V8 goes away, and its all about making money. But some people like the 5.0 V8 so I'll make it sound like we have no choice and tell them we have a replacement that is just as good or better, anyway."

Next reason - I am an executive at a car company and I have been taught since I started in business 'Why tell the truth when a lie will do'.

Next reason - I just say what the higher ups tell me to say. I'm not sure I know what it means, but it sounds good and I can say it with conviction as that's a big part of my job.

I shouldn't think that would be so hard to understand.

I don't doubt that they would lie if they needed to. but that does not explain why they would lie in the first place.

You claim that Hyundai will make more money by eliminating the V8. I am not sure I understand that. I don't think they will drop the V8 from all cars (such as the Equus) and may even keep it around for the Genesis in addition to the V6 TT. Kia has the Tau V8 in their K900. Some potential customers might not buy a Genesis if no V8 is available, so there would be lost sales.

So unless you can explain how they will make more money by offering a V6 TT, then I still have no reason to believe that the CEO was lying when he said the V6 TT is all about CAFE.

 

[jimb100]

I don't doubt that they would lie if they needed to. but that does not explain why they would lie in the first place.

You claim that Hyundai will make more money by eliminating the V8. I am not sure I understand that. I don't think they will drop the V8 from all cars (such as the Equus) and may even keep it around for the Genesis in addition to the V6 TT. Kia has the Tau V8 in their K900. Some potential customers might not buy a Genesis if no V8 is available, so there would be lost sales.

So unless you can explain how they will make more money by offering a V6 TT, then I still have no reason to believe that the CEO was lying when he said the V6 TT is all about CAFE.

I've already explained that to you. Instead of repeating what I wrote, why don't you just read it again.

Now, you don't think they will drop the V8 from all cars. Not even the Genesis.

How do they save money by eliminating engine choices? I know you can figure this out if you think about it. I'll provide some hints, economies of scale, fewer warranty parts to stock, more profit in the V6, savings in manufacturing.

Have you ever worked in manufacturing or with a product your company manufactured? It can be hard to understand if you've never been exposed to the process.

 

[GenesisCaptain]

Just because I cannot let a dead horse lie, I had to add one more post...

I caught up on a couple Car & Driver magazines this weekend, and one of the last two issues did a review of the 2015 Mustang with the 2.3L i4 EcoBoost engine. The review totally impressed me with how much better the Ford turbo i4 is than my NA V6. I concluded that I would rather have an equivalent of that engine over the V6.

The Ford produces its peak HP 500 RPM lower and its peak torque 2,500 RPM sooner (and peak torque is almost 30 ft-lb more than the Genesis). That means that the everyday performance would crush the Genesis-- it would accelerate way stronger off the line because of the lower end torque, and continue the stronger acceleration to the red line. And I bet that baby engine is a lot lighter, almost to the point that the Genesis could be 50%-50% weight balance.

There is the negative emotional stigma of thinking that you are sporting a wimpy 2.3l i4 engine versus a V6. But really, when the i4 eats your lunch, wouldn't you rather have the performer over the mainframe big iron?

And I like me a good V8, but when the newest V6 EcoBoost engine out-performs the Genesis mainframe V8 by 40 ft-lb of torque 2,250 RPM sooner, I'm thinking most folks would not mind the FI V6. The Genesis V8 gives 40 HP more at 750 RPM later in the rev band, which means that when the old school V8 finally hits its stride, it may be too far behind to ever catch up.

For my next engine, I want a minimum of 400 HP and 400 ft-lb torque. It is highly unlikely that I will find that output in a non-FI engine in a car I want. It is highly likely that the engine producing that much power will be a FI V6. I will be sad not to have a V8, but hey, if the engine performs to my specs and weighs less, I don't think I will care.

 

[YEH]

Simplest reason - He just didn't want to say "We make more money if the 5.0 V8 goes away, and its all about making money. But some people like the 5.0 V8 so I'll make it sound like we have no choice and tell them we have a replacement that is just as good or better, anyway."

Hyundai will likely keep the 5.0 V8 around as long as they can, and I can't see Hyundai not having a V8 for the Equus (remember, there is a LWB/limo version of the Equus and a TTV6 isn't going to do the trick, esp. for the armored version), so that probably means a new smaller displacement FI V8 down the road or in a pinch, adding FI to the current Tau for the time being.

Mercedes recently announced that their 8 cyl and 12 cyl engines aren't going away, so can't see that being the case for BMW and Audi as well (and besides, they need those engines for their RR and Bentley marques).

So while 8 cyl, much less 12 cyl engines aren't going away, they will be getting smaller and have FI (or other aids like a battery-drive system which could add power/torque and not be such a gas hog).

I guess those who want the default top engine for the midsize segment be a NA 8 cyl might be miffed that they will have to settle for a FI 6 cyl, unless they are willing to pony up the extra $$ for the performance line which will have a FI 8 cyl.

One thing I can definitely see is the new Equus and K900 adding the 3.3TT as their new base engine - which should help increase sales (along with the addition of AWD, a better chassis and interiors) and improve fuel economy for the respective nameplates.

And for those who wanted more power and were disappointed that Hyundai didn't offer H-TRAC w/ the 5.0 in the US, the 3.3TT will in all probability get AWD as an option.

Speaking of the K900, Equus and Genesis - according to Autodata, the 3 have a 10.4% share of the premium auto market, which I take to be the midsize and flagship luxury sedan segments.

That would mean that H/K have a larger share of the premium market than they do in the mainstream market, and that's w/ an Equus and K900 which could really use a Genesis-type upgrade (the 2G Genesis is the star).

The Genesis, which hit U.S. showrooms in April last year, played a pivotal role, selling 6,656 units in January-March, which is up a whopping 251 percent from a year earlier. That puts it at No. 3 just behind BMW’s 5 Series and the Mercedes-Benz E class.

http://thekoreancarblog.com/2015/04/13/hyundai-kia-usa-premium-market-share-rise-10/

And comparatively, the Genesis is even a bigger star in Canada where it is smoking CTS, A6, GS and Q70 in sales.

So all the naysayers who thought that a non-lux branded strategy wouldn't work were wrong (still think Hyundai should go the lux sub-brand route down the road).

 

[Sal Collaziano]

I will be sad not to have a V8, but hey, if the engine performs to my specs and weighs less, I don't think I will care.

You won't...

In regards to these luxury cars selling without a separate brand - I'm actually a little surprised. On one hand I shouldn't be because the cars are so great. On the other, everyone was so sure it would be a tremendous challenge.

But just imagine how well they'd be selling if they DID have their own separate luxury brand! I think a sub-brand would be great. And I have a feeling it's coming. I already feel the "Genesis" is a sub-brand in it's own way...

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[YEH]

^ And the new Kia GT/K800? is coming so H/K should be able to increase that 10% marketshare even when Genesis sales slow down a bit as it ages (the increase in new Equus and K900 sales being fairly immaterial - going from 300-350 a month to say, 600-700 a month).

As long as Kia doesn't tone down the sheetmetal too much (just needs a re-worked front) and keeps the pricing appropriate, should be a hit (hitting a slightly different market than the Genesis, being smaller and sportier).

Pricing is the key and Hyundai wouldn't have been able to keep a lid on the price if they had to invest in a separate lux dealer network (plus, would be hard to keep those dealerships afloat w/ just Genesis, Equus and coupe sales).

I'm hoping they really go w/ the sub-brand route, so wouldn't have to go thru the hassle of badge swapping (plus the Hyundai badge is awful; they need to change that regardless) but the smart thing would be the wait until they have a fuller lux lineup ready.

compact RWD sedan
new RWD coupe
Genesis
Equus
lux CUV (1 for now)

And w/ the sub-brand strategy, would only allow the better/larger Hyundai dealerships which invest in a separate showroom/lounge area to carry the sub-brand.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Yeah, I'd like them to wait until they have a bigger "Genesis" lineup as well. In my opinion only the best dealerships, those that earn enough and are willing to open a separate store, should be permitted to sell "Genesis" cars under the sub-brand...

 

[Aquineas]

Yeah, I'd like them to wait until they have a bigger "Genesis" lineup as well. In my opinion only the best dealerships, those that earn enough and are willing to open a separate store, should be permitted to sell "Genesis" cars under the sub-brand...

They will probably be able to do 3 or 4:

Equus
Genesis sedan
Upcoming 3-series competitor
Genesis Coupe​

 

[Sal Collaziano]

They will probably be able to do 3 or 4:

Equus
Genesis sedan
Upcoming 3-series competitor
Genesis Coupe​

I really think they need an SUV in their lineup before moving forward with a sub-brand. Crossover SUVs are one of the hottest segments right now...

 

[Aquineas]

I really think they need an SUV in their lineup before moving forward with a sub-brand. Crossover SUVs are one of the hottest segments right now...

True, and they are the cash cows. But that should be an easy exercise for them; they've already got the platform hardware, they just need to take it "upbrand."

 

[Sal Collaziano]

True, and they are the cash cows. But that should be an easy exercise for them; they've already got the platform hardware, they just need to take it "upbrand."

I think using the Kia Borrego would be a good start. And the Veracruz, for a smaller SUV, could work...