EPA finds Hyundai, Kia overstated gas mileage

[jstkrsn]

I drive a 2012 3.8. The EPA numbers are 19/29. Consumer Reports got 22/33. That's what I usually get on a flat road doing the speed limit. Way above the EPA numbers. So there!

 

[Richard Ft. Lauderdale]

As I said on the other thread on this subject, I have never gotten mileage any where near what is advertised on any car. I put under 3,500 miles per year on a car so mileage is not my primary concern. Reliability is my primary concern. Tnat's why have purchased my second Hyundai. I never had a car as reliable as the Genesis and I assume the Equus will be the same. I couldn't be happier with the Genesis or Equus. Around here there is a stop light every two blocks. Sometimes someone will fall asleep in front of me so I have to sit through two rounds of the light or a train will come and I have to wait seven or eight minutes. I spend more time stopped at lights than I do moving. My average speed is usually 12 to 14 miles per hour.

 

[sjphill]

I too would love it if my R-Spec got better gas mileage,,,and I think about higher gas mileage constantly,,,,then that long entrance ramp calls to me,,,LOOK theres a truck coming, better make sure I can get to the fast lane before he does, then the V8 calls my name,,,,d**n Steve, youre going over 100, better slow it down!
Ah well, so much for gas mileage!

 

[Potty_Pants]

Anyone who is truly concerned about fuel costs will have an opportunity and a responsibility to do something about it Tuesday. Clue, it doesn't involve a debit card from Hyundai.

Lmfao like voting for one or the other will make a difference, hell yours/ours vote(s) are worthless , electoral college.

Mpg was a consideration in my purchase which is partially why i didnt buy a ctsv. I do drive very few miles a year, however there is a limit and the ctsv crossed it. I did my homework and researched realworld mpg on the genesis.window sticker could have 50mpg for all i care. However if i didnt research and the mpg was 4 or less on the v8..... id have a big concern.

Now ill bitch... my bmw got 22mpg when new... when traded it was at 17mpg. Yeah wtf. Faulty pumps, faulty di and faulty updates were the reason. Too late to do anything after i signed on the line...


Ppp

 

[EXBMWGUY]

I too would love it if my R-Spec got better gas mileage,,,and I think about higher gas mileage constantly,,,,then that long entrance ramp calls to me,,,LOOK theres a truck coming, better make sure I can get to the fast lane before he does, then the V8 calls my name,,,,d**n Steve, youre going over 100, better slow it down!
Ah well, so much for gas mileage!

A huh!

 

[Waki]

I must admit I am amused at all the theory's. having spent my life traveling through the Asian countries, I have to tell you that deception/misrepresentation is a way of life over there. Hyundai deliberately lied about those numbers, no mistakes, just deliberate misinformation. They got caught and will have to pay.
Have you heard any apologies from the Koreans ? No, just the North American management. And you won't hear any apologies. In their minds they did nothing wrong. They just got caught.
I've owned two Genesi and love them. Never had any confidence or respect for management.

 

[Ruissimo]

I get the mileage they advertised, and I do so with a lead foot almost every day. I don't much care for how this affects me personally.

However, this is sooooo embarassing for Hyundai and Kia - and it will have repercusions long term. Basically, whatever steam was picked up in the last few years will stall because of this. And we'll go back to hearing all the taunts by the haters out there. Again.

So.... How many 40mpg hwy cars do you sell NOW, Hyundai?

John K's not getting any sleep these days.

 

[Potty_Pants]

I get the mileage they advertised, and I do so with a lead foot almost every day. I don't much care for how this affects me personally.

However, this is sooooo embarassing for Hyundai and Kia - and it will have repercusions long term. Basically, whatever steam was picked up in the last few years will stall because of this. And we'll go back to hearing all the taunts by the haters out there. Again.

So.... How many 40mpg hwy cars do you sell NOW, Hyundai?

John K's not getting any sleep these days.

I get about 15 with lead foot, though very short trips too.

Just my opinion i cant see major headaches with hyundai from this. Hell if 1 mpg is a concern when you have major recalls on toyotas etc, just different perspective.

Big +1 hyundai bragged about 40mpg... oops they are going to eat a lot of crow on this one, wonder which car company will taunt hyundai with a car commercial mocking them.

Still 35mpg for sonata (turbo) , hyundai is doing a great job....

I look forward to when there is a similar rating across the board for hp/torque!

Ppp

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

when you say agreed but, that means you do not agree..

Nope, there was a period after I said agreed. Then I started a new statement that was about something else.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

If you do not want the rebate and are actually getting the claimed mileage, then simply ignore this. They are not taking the money from you.

Where do you think the money will come from then? the Govt? Nope, from consumers like you and I. They will raise their prices to cover their loss.

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[Mark_888]

It dosent bother me at all. Let them change it to whatever they want.

What does bother me is the amount of money spent on an investigation based on the complaint of a few people because they didn't achieve the "EPA estimate" MPG. And Hyundai basically "paying off" those people. Where do you think that money comes from? Tax paying consumers like you and I.

Since when did they change the defination of the word estimate? That's all those numbers are, an EPA estimate and it states such on the window sticker. A caluclated guess at what MPG you can get under the circumstances they tested it in.

Now if you can show me where on the window sticker it stated that I will get XYZ MPG minimum, and I do not acheive that, then I would agree with what is happening. But it dosen't, it says it's an estimate and your milage will vary.

Can you honestly tell me that any of those people who complained actully bought their car because it got 1 or 2 MPG more than the other one they were looking to buy? If that's the case, then they should have bought something different with a whole lot better PMG.

The EPA mileage estimates are estimates only in the sense that your mileage may differ, but only because your driving habits may differ from the EPA test procedures. The EPA mileage numbers are exact if the manufacturer follows the proper test procedures.

If there is no enforcement of standardized test procedures, then manufacturers can make up whatever numbers they want to, and I don't think even Hyundai wants that to happen since they often have a competitive advantage in that area.

 

[Mark_888]

Where do you think the money will come from then? the Govt? Nope, from consumers like you and I. They will raise their prices to cover their loss.

Prices are usually determined by supply and demand (that are necessary to sell the number of cars they want to move), not necessarily by cost of manufacture.

For example, the Genesis was deliberately under-priced in the US in order to gain market share and to penetrate the entry level luxury market in the US. The equivalent Genesis sold in the US is priced more than $10K higher in Korea.

Hyundai makes over 3 million vehicles per year world-wide and is a very large company. The MPG rebates are not to going to have a material affect on their profits. The biggest financial impact is going to be their credibility with the public, but they have taken the right steps to minimize that.

 

[Mark_888]

The Michelin Energy Savers tires are formally marketed as Green or LRR tires by Michelin. As for the Dunlops, I am not aware that they are considered a low rolling resistance tire, but they could be lower than the Michelins. The Michelins have a huge cult following among Prius drivers who are into the extreme mileage quest.

Many premium automakers use the Dunlop SP Sport 5000 tires as OE, such as Lexus IS, Lexus ES, Lexus GS, Lexus LS, Mercedes ML, and Mercedes GL, and Infiniti FX. Although they are very unpopular on the Genesis, the auto industry may not consider them inferior. Though personally, I have never liked Dunlop tires.

I never said that all Dunlop tires are bad or poor quality. But the ones put on the Genesis exacerbated the suspension issues of 2009-2011 models (made the ride even more jolting), so it is reasonable to assume that the Dunlops were selected in part because of good MPG for the EPA tests, good handling, and probably also because they got a very good price on those particular tires. I say "reasonable" because we can see from this thread the lengths that Hyundai (and all automakers) go to in order to get good EPA mileage ratings. This is not just for marketing, but also for the strict new CAFE rules lurking in the future.

Just because the Michelin Energy Savers are marketed as Green or LRR tires does not say anything about the OEM Dunlops on the Genesis.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Mark, I agree that Hyundai is a very big company. They build a lot more than just cars. Think BIG cargo ships and shipping containers. That's why they have the manufacturing ability to build just about everything in house starting from raw steel.

But a $70m ( as posted in the article) hit is a big one to swallow. So I doubt they will just suck that up.

I know and agree there needs/has to be a testing standard to go by. But for 12 out of 900,000 people to complain because they didn't get the milage that was posted on a window sticker as an estimate, and then the EPA making such a big deal about i, that's where I have issues. we are talking like 1 to the -5 or so percent.

If there was something wrong with the test procdures, fine, fix it and move on. From what I have seen, there is very little change. And apparently the other 899,988 people didn't even notice it.

This whole mess is like the class action law suit I get in the mail. I just throw them away. If they send me some money, fine. If they don't, I'm not going to loose any sleep over it. I say this because I got a $9.00 gift card from Lowes because of a class action law suit. I didn't do anything but shreed the paper they sent me. I'm sure the lawyers got a pretty penney out of it and the prices will see an increase to cover their loss. And it was probably over the interpirtation of something that was written in the agreement.

I got one a few years back over the horsepower rating on a lawnmower. Again, I didn't care and threw the paper away. I got a check for 5 bucks. Big deal. How much do you think it cost the company to pay off everyone , including the lawyers, print the checks and mail them out? All because the horespower rating in a lawnmower engine was off by 1 HP or less. I bet they didn't eat that one either.

We the consumers are the ones paying for it, one way or the other. So if you want your refund or class action setelement from these companies, then don't complain when their prices go up because you are the one who help make them go up.

 

[GenesisCaptain]

Why else would they have used such crappy and harsh riding tires (Dunlops).

I never said that all Dunlop tires are bad or poor quality.

I apologize, I misunderstood your initial reply. When you said that you thought the Dunlop SP Sport 5000 tires were "crappy and harsh riding," I assumed that you were making a value judgment about the tires. I can see from this reply that you were not.

 

[Mark_888]

Mark, I agree that Hyundai is a very big company. They build a lot more than just cars. Think BIG cargo ships and shipping containers. That's why they have the manufacturing ability to build just about everything in house starting from raw steel.

That is no longer true. At one time Hyundai was a giant conglomerate that included all those things, but now the automobile company is completely separate from the others.

But a $70m ( as posted in the article) hit is a big one to swallow. So I doubt they will just suck that up.

Yes they will suck it up, and they will swallow.

I know and agree there needs/has to be a testing standard to go by. But for 12 out of 900,000 people to complain because they didn't get the milage that was posted on a window sticker as an estimate, and then the EPA making such a big deal about i, that's where I have issues. we are talking like 1 to the -5 or so percent.

If there was something wrong with the test procdures, fine, fix it and move on. From what I have seen, there is very little change. And apparently the other 899,988 people didn't even notice it.

This whole mess is like the class action law suit I get in the mail. I just throw them away. If they send me some money, fine. If they don't, I'm not going to loose any sleep over it. I say this because I got a $9.00 gift card from Lowes because of a class action law suit. I didn't do anything but shreed the paper they sent me. I'm sure the lawyers got a pretty penney out of it and the prices will see an increase to cover their loss. And it was probably over the interpirtation of something that was written in the agreement.

I got one a few years back over the horsepower rating on a lawnmower. Again, I didn't care and threw the paper away. I got a check for 5 bucks. Big deal. How much do you think it cost the company to pay off everyone , including the lawyers, print the checks and mail them out? All because the horespower rating in a lawnmower engine was off by 1 HP or less. I bet they didn't eat that one either.

We the consumers are the ones paying for it, one way or the other. So if you want your refund or class action setelement from these companies, then don't complain when their prices go up because you are the one who help make them go up.

Are you an ex-Hyundai employee (or employee of a dealer)? Stop complaining. I don't see Hyundai complaining. The made a mistake and they are fixing it.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Nope, I have nothing to do with the auto industry other than a consumer like most others.

I'm retired Navy and do radar/missile systems testing for the navy now.

Maybe I'm just too old school. One way or another, us, the consumer, will pay for it.

 

[kman]

Mark, I agree that Hyundai is a very big company. They build a lot more than just cars. Think BIG cargo ships and shipping containers. That's why they have the manufacturing ability to build just about everything in house starting from raw steel.

But a $70m ( as posted in the article) hit is a big one to swallow. So I doubt they will just suck that up.

I know and agree there needs/has to be a testing standard to go by. But for 12 out of 900,000 people to complain because they didn't get the milage that was posted on a window sticker as an estimate, and then the EPA making such a big deal about i, that's where I have issues. we are talking like 1 to the -5 or so percent.

If there was something wrong with the test procdures, fine, fix it and move on. From what I have seen, there is very little change. And apparently the other 899,988 people didn't even notice it.

This whole mess is like the class action law suit I get in the mail. I just throw them away. If they send me some money, fine. If they don't, I'm not going to loose any sleep over it. I say this because I got a $9.00 gift card from Lowes because of a class action law suit. I didn't do anything but shreed the paper they sent me. I'm sure the lawyers got a pretty penney out of it and the prices will see an increase to cover their loss. And it was probably over the interpirtation of something that was written in the agreement.

I got one a few years back over the horsepower rating on a lawnmower. Again, I didn't care and threw the paper away. I got a check for 5 bucks. Big deal. How much do you think it cost the company to pay off everyone , including the lawyers, print the checks and mail them out? All because the horespower rating in a lawnmower engine was off by 1 HP or less. I bet they didn't eat that one either.

We the consumers are the ones paying for it, one way or the other. So if you want your refund or class action setelement from these companies, then don't complain when their prices go up because you are the one who help make them go up.

Are you aware that by throwing those action lawsuit papers out you are basically saying you agree with them? Most of them require you to specifically request to be excluded form being represented form the litigation. I agree with you that they lawyers are the ones that make money on this, and the customer doesn't benefit much.

As far as the EPA, from what I have read they have found out that Hyundai wasn't applying the formula for calculating MPG's correctly, not that they have forced Hyundai to pay money to its clients. From what I understand, Hyundai is the one that decided to pay for this error to save/preserve their public image, especially among the owners who bought their cars due to the claimed MPGs.

While I personally don't care about 1 MPG +/- from what was claimed, I do think that one company miscalculating it is unfair to all the other companies that manufacture cars and try to raise their fleet average MPGs up.

 

[Mark_888]

Nope, I have nothing to do with the auto industry other than a consumer like most others.

I'm retired Navy and do radar/missile systems testing for the navy now.

Maybe I'm just too old school. One way or another, us, the consumer, will pay for it.

Maybe you haven't seen Hyundai's advertising budget recently? They spend hundreds of millions each year in the US alone just on advertising. Who do you think pays for that?

In the last Super Bowl alone, Hyundai had five 30-second commercials at about $4 million a piece (not counting production costs). That's at least $20 million right there while most people are in the bathroom or the fridge getting another beer.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Oh, I know adverstizing is huge, espically during the superbowl. Remember back when the Genessis coupe first came out and they had a mini series about it as ad's during the Super Bowl?

But it's still us that has to pay for it. Same here, even if Hyundai states they will give refunds, etc, of their own accord, to save face, it's us the consumer that will pay for it in the long run.