Autospies (Autolies?) Genesis Video

[jwaters943]

I came across this while searching the web for Genesis related news/reviews. I've yet to see anything before or since that is filled with more venom and dislike for the Genesis. Not to sound like a big cheerleader for the Genesis, but some of his complaints are a bit off the wall to me. If the Genesis has weird proportions, then so does every BMW, MB, Lexus, etc. which he seems to like just fine. I honestly can't help but laugh at some of his comments.

Anyway, here ya go:
[YOUTUBE]XfpgthepdKY[/YOUTUBE]

My apologies if this has been posted before.

On a more positive note, I found this pic on another site:

Come to papa!!

 

[GrandPrix08]

Thanx for posting it, but unfortunately, it's an old video that I actually posted in reply to a thread here(if I can find it that is). But as you know, you can't please everyone, whether it is a car or not. Everyone has a different taste.

Nice pic as well. Judging by the plate(written in Korean) and the Genesis logo, along with the different exhaust pipe, that thing is Korean domestic version.

btw, can I ask you if you are Korean background? I was just wonderring, since I still think it will appeal more to the Korean buyers. Of course, judging by your user name, I don't think you are Korean. But If you are Korean, it's great to see a fellow Korean here.

 

[jwaters943]

Nope, I'm not Korean. My best friend is, does that count?? j/k

I just noticed last week how much Korean stuff I own or have owned within the last few years (2 LG cell phones, 1 Samsung cell phone, 1 LG Washer/Dryer set, 1 Samsung HDTV, 2 Samsung DVD Players, 2 sets of Kumho tires, etc.). For me, purchasing Korean products is not intentional, but more of a testament to just how far certain products coming out of South Korea have improved. In particular, many of their electronics can now be held up against products from any country in the world (and this is coming from a Sony fanboy). As for Hyundai, I would have never considered a Hyundai even 5-6 years ago. They simply had nothing that appealed to me at the time. That alone says a lot about how far they've come in such a short amount of time IMO.

 

[GrandPrix08]

Oh OK. Was just wonderring. Well, I heard that even the most Korean stuffs are made IN Korea, but the parts are from all over. I guess it has to deal with the cost of making them. I am sure there are more Korean parts being used in today's Korean electronics but....

When it comes to cars, yeah, Hyundai, Daewoo, and Kia, 3 of the better known Korean brands in US, were simply a crap a few years ago. Well, Daewoos are still considerred as crap, but when it comes to Hyundai/Kia, yeah, I am happy to say they are not considerred as a total garbage as they had been. Now the rumor has it that Chinese may come in soon, so I guess Hyundai and Kia will have to keep working to improve their products to not be overtaken by the cheaper Chinese when they do get here.

I guess all eyes are on Hyundai now and to see what they do in the future. If they will go close to the Japanese or not.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

All that video is - is one man's opinions.. That's all - nothing else. Again - why does a car's interior need to bring something "new" to the table? Is that mandatory now? Who wrote that rule?

Now that black Korean version of the Genesis is REALLY nice.. We need those exhaust tips available on the aftermarket right away! That's a GREAT looking car..

 

[RichieRichLancair]

Love the black Genesis. Wheels are cool. That car looks so good from the back. I know, it's not the style of a BMW, more bland. Color me bland, conservative what ever, I love it.

I think that reviewer is spot on with most of his comments. Not that I agree with them. Particularly the styling of the car. Hyundai has my number there. Even the "Klingon Grille" is starting to win me over.

I'm an entrepreneur and have been knocked around quite a bit by marketing. I've lost three businesses, because of my lack of understanding it (maybe my refusal to understand it?). It is the life blood of any company. I feel that 80% of a company's success comes from it's use of marketing.

It is a kick ass arena and in a competive market it is kill or be killed, survival at it's worse. Hyundai has made some big mistakes. Almost amateur in nature.

In the market that Hyundai has chosen to enter you need to over deliver. Under delivery is the death knell.

That said, you have to deliver on expectations. Hyundai has set the expectations very high on this car. It's obvious, it set them too high. This isn't a knock on the car. Many of the brands Hyundai is comparing itself to MB, Lexus, Infiniti, BMW are measured by intangibles. To be really taken seriously they needed a gimmick, something like the Lexus self parking feature. Something to get people excited.

Hyundai's cost cutting measures (i.e. one cooled seat, no rear DVD entertainment center, no adaptive cruise, etc...) is going to hammer them in this market. These are sophisticated buyers. Probably the toughest market out there.

You don't start cost cutting until you established yourself in the market.

When someone delivers 10 times what you expect, what do you do? You buy, in fact you will buy at a premium. Money seems secondary. What happens when you are not sure, hearing negative rumors, finding differences in what you were promised and actually delivered? You keep your money in your pocket. As a matter of fact you put a lock on your wallet.

The hardest marketing idea for me to understand is that buying is an emotional decision. I hate that, I want it to be a logical choice. It just isn't.

Logically the Genesis is a nice car, good value has most of the features more expensive brands do. Pure logic, nothing emotional. With the hype there was a lot of positive emotion for the Genesis. With delivery not so much.

This same thing happened with the Azera, they kept comparing it to the BMW 7 series. I believe that is why they haven't sold in the numbers that Hyundai expected. Same with the Veracruz. When will Hyundai learn? Looks like three in a row.

Another botched Hyundai launch.

I love the Genesis. Followed it for two years. Really disappointed now. Probably going to wait a model year or two.

 

[jwaters943]

But even Hyundai has stated that the GS, M, 5-Series, etc. aren't their true competitors, only their "image and engineering benchmarks". Their true competition is the G8, 300, ES350, Avalon, Lucerne, Maxima, etc. I don't think many people are expecting every single feature available on cars like the M45 or GS430 at this price. If they are, they just don't understand the realities of the marketplace and our economy IMO (e.g. poor exhange rates, etc.). You can't have it all at this price, but the Genesis comes damn close IMO. Honestly, it sounded like he was sitting in a G8 more than a Genesis. To call it one of the most disappointing vehicles at the show is just laughable. The interior in particular is much better than he's giving credit for.

Very in-depth video on the Genesis (Long video, but at least watch from 4:00-4:55 & from 16:15-29:31):
[YOUTUBE]yjia6K0Rnqg[/YOUTUBE]

As for how it stacks up to the GS, I hate to sound like a broken record, but I owned a 2006 GS430. I'm intimately familiar with that car, and believe me when I say that the Genesis interior is just as nice, if not nicer. It has more comfortable seating (especially in back), it rides better, it "feels" just as quick, and it's quieter inside. I also prefer the brake pedal and steering feel on the Genesis, but that may be more of a personal preference thing. My GS was also plagued with rattles and a "popping" sunroof and the paint on 2 of my 4 wheels started peeling after a few weeks. Overall, my GS430 was one of the more disappointing vehicles I've owned (and I've owned a lot). Sure the service was great, but generally speaking it was much more of a case of an automaker "overpromising and underdelivering" than the Hyundai Genesis IMO. Call me crazy, but I expected more from a $60k car promising "The Relentless Persuit of Perfection".

The fact of the matter is there is no other V8 sedan from a non-premium Asian automaker. There is no other car in this class that uses an acoustic windshield and front side window glass. There is no other car in this price that uses ASD (ampitude-selective damping) similar to MB. Very few cars in any class utilize an aluminum-intensive 5-link suspension design. The Genesis may not be groundbreaking in a design sense, but it certainly is groundbreaking in terms of thoughtful engineering and technology for the money. BTW, adaptive cruise is coming, and before you bash Hyundai for not offering it at launch, MANY automakers have delayed intro on certain features, so they aren't the only ones. It's also worth noting that ALG is predicting higher risidual values for the Genesis than any of it's luxury engineering benchmarks (see video at around the 28 minute mark). That's pretty big for Hyundai IMO. The lease deals are outstanding and will open up this car to a whole other group of people IMO. You can spend more on an Altima, Accord, Camry, etc. lease!

End of rant.

 

[RichieRichLancair]

I understand your objections. Believe me I do. I think you are correct in your assertions from an engineering and operations point of view.

I fought with these issues you speak about, but finally had my ass kicked enough.

Human psychology is very strange and non logical. Changing a prospect to a buyer is emotional or sub conscious. The buyer doesn't know why he wants to buy and makes excuses for his decision.

From a business persective; developing a car like the Genesis represents a huge capital investment. As a business you want to get as big a bang so to speak from your investment. That is done through sales and marketing. Not engineering and operations.

Hyundai has found a big market that is not currently being serviced. This is evident by the hype and market buzz about the Genesis.

Your definition of disappointing is different from the reviewer. In his opinion he was promised one thing and found it to be untrue. This is marketing suicide. My opinion doesn't count. Hyundai's opinion doesn't count. Only his opinion counts.

Hyundai is the one with all the marbles at stake. They can not afford to alienate someone like him with the influence he has.

Hyundai specifically mentions, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus in their advertising. Subconsciously to the prospect that is saying look at these models and compare us to them.

I don't recall Buick saying that. The Pontiac G8 isn't selling as well as predicted but then Bob Lutz said to all the automotive publications it is the BMW for the masses.

I consider myself the biggest Genesis geek on the planet, but I didn't know that there was a primary market and target market. I wonder how may people will walk in to their dealer and say Im a primary market prospect but willing to buy if you have eliminated the right features and saved me money?

My guess is none. To me that sounds like engineered marketing. Maybe an engineer is doing their marketing.

All humans buy for similiar reasons, number 1 being "percieved value". Their perception is the only one that counts.

Exceed their expectations and they will buy. Delivering less than expected they won't. Even if everyone else delivers less.

I don't think you are a typical Genesis prospect. I would guess you were sold long before you actually bought. You traveled hundreds of miles to the largest dealership with the first shipment. Hyundai will have no problem selling to prospects like you. I don't think the saleman had to sell you on the car.

My guess is Hyundai would have to do something really stupid to disappoint you.

When a person goes to buy they don't consider exchange rates manufacturing difficulties. What matters is "How do I feel about this car?" No logic pure emotion.

I want Hyundai to succeed big with the Genesis. They had alot of buzz and positive hype. This launch is screwing it up IMO. Their mistakes are obvious to me.

Wow I guess I have learned more about marketing than I thought.

 

[Bman]

I love the wheels on that black Genesis. Does anyone know who makes them?

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Keep in mind, guys, that the Genesis is going to sell to people who "want" features but can do without quality service. If you can afford a great car with great service - than you buy from Lexus, BMW or Mercedes. If you can only afford a great car, than you buy the Genesis. I believe most people aren't going to be as picky as "we" are as a group. We're the ones doing all the research and have higher expectations than the guy who's trading in his Azera or Sonata and seeing the Genesis for the first time...

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[Bman]

The Genesis will also appeal to people like my wife and I who can afford whatever car we want, but are no longer interested in luxury logos that don't live up to the hype. At this point, I want quality, value and a decent dealership experience. I think the Genesis will be able to provide this.

 

[jwaters943]

The Genesis will also appeal to people like my wife and I who can afford whatever car we want, but are no longer interested in luxury logos that don't live up to the hype. At this point, I want quality, value and a decent dealership experience. I think the Genesis will be able to provide this.

You sound like me. Not that I could afford any car I want (If I bought an Ferrari, I'd have to live in it..lol ), but I no longer feel the need to impress anyone by the car I drive. That desire went away in my 20's. I've had a BMW. It was great car, but I hated the stigma associated with it and it had it's issues. I had a Lexus and trust me when I say, it wasn't anything that special outside of the service at the dealer.

Give me a well-built car with good feature content, nice styling, and a comprehensive warranty over most of the so-called "luxury cars" out there.

As Richie pointed out, I'm probably not the Genesis' target audience, but I would like to clarify something. I did not decide on getting the Genesis prior to sitting in/driving it. I drive to Roseville/Sacramento several times a year so the 115 mile trip down there was no big deal for me. I've considered several cars over the years. I was naturally very excited about the Genesis, but I was also just as excited about the new Maxima, the G8, and the 300 when it came out a few years ago. I didn't buy any of those vehicles. The Genesis was one of those rare occassions where you find something that just feels right to you and all your sensory receptors in your brain light up.

In any case, I still think "Agent 001" from Autospies was way off the mark in many of his complaints. Either way, it doesn't matter really. I'm actually more interested to hear what prospective buyers have to say about the Genesis once they've driven it.

 

[RichieRichLancair]

Well I CAN'T afford any car I want. McLaren F1.

I thought the review was well done. I thought he was very complimentary to the Genesis. He said two or three times that it was a nice car. He even mentioned the active cruise in the car. Which won't be on the car.

He only pointed out some flaws as compared to the market and offered what I thought was great suggestions, I certainly would not have thought of. I am really impressed that he was so dead on in January. I guess his demeanor is abrasive. Kinda like Simon on American Idol.

Constructive Criticism take what you can use and drop the rest.

The Hyundai ads state with an interior that rivals a S class but at a price of a C class. To me that means the Genesis has the interior of a 100K S class top of the line Mercedes but at the price of the entry level Mercedes. That invites comparision to the S class Mercedes considered the benchmark of luxury in the premium luxury class. I've sat in that car, that is the sweetest interior I have seen.

If the Genesis interior doesn't compare favorably it is going to get clobbered. Period. I have seen some areas that the Genesis doesn't come close in the photos. I hope they have fixed them.

BUT THEN I WOULDN'T KNOW BECAUSE I CAN'T FIND ONE TO LOOK AT!!!! ARRRGHHH...

My main beef with Hyundai is this launch. I think Hyundai can go head to head with some of the best cars on many of their features. I would like to see the car stand or fall on it's merits not because of a butchered launch or marketers gone wild (now there's a video...hmmmm).

An example; I know about 20 people that are actively looking for a new car. They all wanted to consider the Genesis because of the buzz. I think Hyundai could have landed 10 of these people, easily. I don't think any will buy Hyundai this time around. Unless this is isolated to my area, Hyundai might have a problem here.

I have seen enough already to postpone my decision to buy now.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Rich.. I think the only reason the reviewer from AutoSpies said anything nice about the Genesis is because if he didn't, nobody would believe anything he said.. He wasn't 100% off base - but he was far enough that I feel his review was intentionally negative - meaning he was already assuming it would be bad before he got in the car. That's an easy way to remain negative throughout the experience...

 

[jwaters943]

Richie,

Active Cruise is still coming next year based on everything I've read.

As for the Autospies video, let's just agree to disagree.

 

[RichieRichLancair]

I think we agree on much more than we disagree.

You never mention your competitors by name. Extremely high risk. Very little possible reward.

Like my high school football coach use to tell me "If your not competitive, don't compete".

I wish Hyundai would have said with an interior most think rivals the best European manufacturers. Gets the same message across, is much more accurate and gives Hyundai an easy out. Now everyone is going to compare, pick their favorites and slam the little guy. The Genesis is in a no win situation here.

On the style, I love it. The reviewer made good valid points here but it is all based on personal preference. Some people want bold styling. I just don't see what he is saying here, but then there is no accounting for bad taste.

Hyundai made this same mistake on the launch of the Azera, then the Veracruz and now the Genesis.

 

[GrandPrix08]

Well, as some people say, styling can be very subjective. Some people wants a new, groundbreaking, unique new style, while others tend to like the conservertive, safe styling that isn't too wild and outrageous. The thing for the Genesis is that, while keeping it conservative, they just copied way too much design cues here and there. Sure it isn't a blatent 100% copy of other brands, but it certainly isn't unique and any different. Without any logo up front, it even makes it more so to look like a rip-off, well, maybe it's just me. At least, if Hyundai could manage to do a better job in launching than they are doing right now, the sales would have been picked up already. I hope they learn their mistake soon, so their ambitious first try turns out as a success. As a Korean myself, I do feel a bit of a pride, though I don't like the styling of it, and wish it accomplish what the company have in it and sell as much as they have set the goals to, though I will never buy one. At least not for me for I already got the car I was dreaming about for 10 years, and if I ever do buy it, it will be for my dad.

 

[RichieRichLancair]

Oh man... Your Dad... No... I guess I need to start looking forward to AARP

 

[GrandPrix08]

Cause I am not really an Import buyer, and I am not into the luxury cars(can't afford one anyway) and I still consider myself too young to drive a heavy, luxury cars. I am more into Pontiacs. Well, only Pontiacs, have no interest in other GM divisions. though my Grand Prix will be the last GM car I will be owning, for GM is turning the Pontiac as an Aussie Import Seller and I am not too fond of Holdens to begin with, and I hate the idea of a re-badge on an import using my favorite make's logo.

Well, that's that. I may still save my money and buy the Genesis sometime next year(yeah, 2010 model) if the feedback are good, for my dad who really needs a new car sooner or later, even though the 99 Grand am I gave him is still running like new and still under 86K miles on it, but it IS an old car(9 years old) so, I may surprice him.

 

[RichieRichLancair]

2010? About the timeframe I'll be look... Hmmm... Just so you know, I'm not above groveling. That would be Black with cocoa interior, PLEASE