Getting excited about the 2021 Stinger

Slip_Angle

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I'm one of those. I could not get past the giant KIA logo on the steering wheel.

That's why North American's never bought Honda, Nissan, Toyota etc back in the 70s and 80s.. Fact is companies get better and innovate. I can't imagine how crappy the domestics would be if there was no competition.

I was a Honda/Acura guy for 25 years but struggled in the past 10 years to like their "play it safe" products. I'd never bought a Genesis without keeping an open mind and am really glad I did!
 

TinsleyC

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I just Googled the Kia logo change and apparently this has been applied for:
 

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Toddasaurus

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An interesting thing the next generation/facelift Stinger event will be, then. The nice thing is that we won't have to wait too much longer before the 2021 model year is released and we will have some answers.
 

YEH

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I've also seen reference to a new 3.3t with over 400 Hp. Hard to say which engine it's getting.

That is certainly a possibility if Kia uses similar tuning to the one-off UK GT240 (around 402 HP); there was also an engineer from KIA USA who stated that they had been working on a more track-focused Stinger w/ even more power from the 3.3TT.

But at the same time, the new 3.5TT is more fuel efficient and emits less CO2 which is very important for the Euro market (where automakers are all trying to get under the threshold, otherwise, the get hit by huge fines).

But the ever more stringent Euro emissions reqs. and Covid-19 may very well just convince Kia not to continue w/ the Stinger (even if the next gen underpinned by the new platform would allow for a BEV variant).
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MrMegadeth

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Saw some speculation that the 2.0/2.5t may be the one to get the cut - at least in the USA. I guess no one bought the small car.
 

Backslack

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Based on "leaked documents" from the ever so reliable Korean Car Blog... yeah I would take that with a massive grain of salt.

If a hypothetical next-gen Stinger were to be made, we won't be seeing it for at least another 3 years. And if the Stinger were to be cancelled, I would expect it to be due to Genesis's unwillingness to lend them their new RWD bespoke platform in the new GV80/G80, unless Kia can develop their own brand-specific RWD platform.
 

BlancaGenny

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Considering the # of tuning companies which offer upgrades for the Stinger (more so than for the G70), I'd say the Stinger had done alright w/ enthusiasts.

Plus, despite being a niche body-style (liftback vs. sedan), it still outsells the G70.

That's exactly my point. We are enthusiasts, not just another consumer. Imagine this:

The Stinger was an Audi. The Stinger sold at the price KIA is selling it at. Still had Audi's decently long 4yr/50k mile warranty. Would it sell better? I don't think I need to answer that. It would turn into the new "Camry". They'd be a dime a dozen.

We live in a world where acceptance far surpasses our own likings and being our true selves. The Stinger is a great car and an even better performance sedan. People may shy away though since the stigma is there...
 

BlancaGenny

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I'm one of those. I could not get past the giant KIA logo on the steering wheel.

People have their preferences, but it doesn't make you wrong.
 

YEH

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Based on "leaked documents" from the ever so reliable Korean Car Blog... yeah I would take that with a massive grain of salt.

If a hypothetical next-gen Stinger were to be made, we won't be seeing it for at least another 3 years. And if the Stinger were to be cancelled, I would expect it to be due to Genesis's unwillingness to lend them their new RWD bespoke platform in the new GV80/G80, unless Kia can develop their own brand-specific RWD platform.

The Stinger and G70 share an architecture, but not the same platform per se (Kia opting for a platform w/ a longer WB, and hence having to bear the entire cost of doing so).

The K900, otoh, uses the exact same platform as the G90, so no added cost for Kia.

H/K/G co-develop the RWD platform and it's in the best interest of H/G to get as much ROI, so any Kia sales adds to that.

While this may seem counter-intuitive, the safer sedans are the G80 and G90 (and likely the K9/K900) as larger sedans sell better in Korea.

Even here in the US, the new G80 should handily outsell the G70 (which is handicapped by its cramped interior space).

Don't think doing away w/ the G70 is entirely out of the realm of possibility, as NA sales have been weak and would need an estate version for Europe (to go along w/ having a hybrid and/or EV variants).

Plus, the next one would need to fix its interior space issue.

But at the same time, can see Genesis opting for another smaller CUV (w/ a bit different roofline) to pair w/ the GV70; can also see Kia getting into the lux CUV game.


That's exactly my point. We are enthusiasts, not just another consumer. Imagine this:

The Stinger was an Audi. The Stinger sold at the price KIA is selling it at. Still had Audi's decently long 4yr/50k mile warranty. Would it sell better? I don't think I need to answer that. It would turn into the new "Camry". They'd be a dime a dozen.

The Stinger is a niche body-style, a fastback, so never was going to be a huge seller.

It sells about as well as the late stage 4 Series GC, and over in Germany, it far outsold the traditional lux sedans from Lexus and Infiniti (which has since left the market).

And there's an even better real life example - the Arteon.

It's priced around the same as the Stinger, but outside of Germany, the Stinger kills the Arteon in sales.
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BlancaGenny

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The Stinger is a niche body-style, a fastback, so never was going to be a huge seller.

It sells about as well as the late stage 4 Series GC, and over in Germany, it far outsold the traditional lux sedans from Lexus and Infiniti (which has since left the market).

And there's an even better real life example - the Arteon.

It's priced around the same as the Stinger, but outside of Germany, the Stinger kills the Arteon in sales.

You are right about the Arteon. However, I can't help that this fastback style is becoming mainstream now. The 2018 and newer Accord has a fastback style as well but has a traditional truck.

Because the Accord is such a well-known and "reliable" nameplant, people buy them. A new model like the Stinger and Arteon are not going to sell as good as a 30+ year old name plate, plus they command a higher selling price.

My point was initially stating that the Stinger is not going to sell well because of brand image. It's not a high volume car to begin with, which I agree with you. Until older generations have come and gone, the stigma will continue to play a large role in defering people from this car. It's sad, really...
 

YEH

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You are right about the Arteon. However, I can't help that this fastback style is becoming mainstream now. The 2018 and newer Accord has a fastback style as well but has a traditional truck.

There's a difference btwn a fastback style (while still being a sedan w/ a trunk) and actually being a liftback; there's a reason why Honda stuck w/ a trunk and didn't use a liftgate.

The 3G Optima actually started the fastback style trend for the midsize family sedan segment w/ its cousin, the Sonata having started the 4-door coupe trend within the segment.

The Fusion, Malibu and 200 (all discontinued now or slated to do so) all had variations of a sloping roofline.
 

BlancaGenny

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There's a difference btwn a fastback style (while still being a sedan w/ a trunk) and actually being a liftback; there's a reason why Honda stuck w/ a trunk and didn't use a liftgate.

The 3G Optima actually started the fastback style trend for the midsize family sedan segment w/ its cousin, the Sonata having started the 4-door coupe trend within the segment.

The Fusion, Malibu and 200 (all discontinued now or slated to do so) all had variations of a sloping roofline.

The only difference is one is actually a "hatch" and one is a trunk. With these fastback style models, they also give the impression of being rear-drive. As more weight is set on the rear wheels/behind the midpoint of the car in profile view, the image comes into vision. This also carries a longer bonnet.

The 3rd Gen Optima and really doesn't have a fast back appearance. I'd say the 4th Gen has a more definitive fastback appearance but I still wouldn't consider it to be one. When I think of fastback design, I think Panamera, S7, Stinger, 2nd Gen G80, or S5 SB. The Optima/Sonata, Fusion, Malibu, and 200 look nothing like these listed.
 

YEH

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The only difference is one is actually a "hatch" and one is a trunk.

Which makes all the difference.

Pretty much all the fastback versions sell less than their traditional 4-door/trunk counterparts.

3 Series > 4 Series GC
A4 > A5 Sportback
Passat > Arteon

The one that doesn't (here) is the G70, which continues to be outsold by the Stinger, but that's largely due to the fundamental flaw in the G70 = its cramped rear.

In SKorea, where there's even a larger preference for sedans over fastbacks, not only does the G70 outsell the Stinger by a factor of 3.5, the considerably more expensive K9/K900 handily outsells the Stinger.

I'm not denying that more sedans have adopted the fastback or 4-door coupe profile/shape (in the interest of added some pizzaz to the look), but hasn't necessarily been a recipe for success.

Marchione bemoaned the fact that the 200's roofline was patterned after the YF Sonata b/c it ended up compromising rear passenger headroom. The 200 didn't last long as a nameplate.

The Fusion and Impala also adopted a sloping roofline and they are either gone or on the way out.

Now, H/K and Honda have somewhat mitigated the rear headroom issue by adding length to the WB.

1.4" to the Sonata's WB and 2.1" in the case for the Accord.

The current Accord w/ the sloping roofline has not sold anywhere close to the level of its more traditional predecessor (granted, a lot of that is the movement towards CUVs and SUVs).

But a more prominent case is that of the LS, which went from a traditional box sedan shape for the LS460 to one w/ a sloping roofline for the LS 500.

LS 500 sales are a fraction of what they were for the LS460 and is declining at a rapid rate (one of the biggest complaints about the LS 500 is the lack of rear passenger headroom; the ES is more spacious at the rear than the Lexus flagship sedan).


The 3rd Gen Optima and really doesn't have a fast back appearance. I'd say the 4th Gen has a more definitive fastback appearance but I still wouldn't consider it to be one. When I think of fastback design, I think Panamera, S7, Stinger, 2nd Gen G80, or S5 SB. The Optima/Sonata, Fusion, Malibu, and 200 look nothing like these listed.

Yeah, b/c they're not actually fastbacks, but sedans (w/ a trunk) that mimic the fastback look.

Even w/ the G80 and Accord, can clearly see the semblance of a trunk from the side.
 
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