I'm a little surprised we haven't seen a comparison test between the G70 and new 3 series

NLJ

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as we start to receive more and more official test data, especially these head to head comparos, Genesis may have some explaining to do if data shows continual gaps between the G70 2.0T and competitors. it is reasonable, and logical, to expect one's 255hp G70 to be roughly equal to, say, a 330i which also has 255hp. given that enough of the other critical mechanical components (weight/gearing/etc) are also the comparable, we should not be seeing a delta of more than a few tenths. with this MW test, the delta is eight tenths 0-60 - almost a full second! sure, the 330i has 13% greater peak torque. but that doesn't explain the wide spread between times.

this has been discussed ad nausea already, but it will take a few more of these comparo tests, testing under similar conditions, to really expose if there could be a concern with the G70's numbers.

removing launch from the equation, the 45-65mph passing test also reveals a great divide of half a second to the 330i. if lag was the only issue, we should see the G70 close the gap a bit (or at least not lose more time) with the 330i for tests beyond 0-60. but that's not the case, either.

up until now i haven't been sold on the bust between the G70 2.0T and competitors. if we see several more tests like this one come in with similar numbers, like i said it may be time for Genesis to answer some tough questions.

i've heard there is an ECU update in Canada which may improve driveability or even add some power (?). i wonder if this is a fix...
I'm sure the PS4S helps with the acceleration a little as well as the lateral cornering and figure 8.
Anyway the turbo is too small on our car!
Runs out of breathe easily around 5,000rpm.
The i30N and Veloster N have bigger turbos!
Best I could do stock was 6.0secs. And 5.5secs with the JB4. 200lbs lighter and maybe I can break 5.3secs.
 

orogenesis

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I'm sure the PS4S helps with the acceleration a little as well as the lateral cornering and figure 8.
Anyway the turbo is too small on our car!
Runs out of breathe easily around 5,000rpm.
The i30N and Veloster N have bigger turbos!
Best I could do stock was 6.0secs. And 5.5secs with the JB4. 200lbs lighter and maybe I can break 5.3secs.
I wonder if there is a way to upgrade the turbos on the 2T if you think that is what's holding it back.
 

NLJ

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I wonder if there is a way to upgrade the turbos on the 2T if you think that is what's holding it back.
Possibly but none yet as far as I know since the 3.3t Stinger and G70 is more popular.
There already are turbo upgrades for the VN and i30N.
The VN stock turbo only needs around 16psi to crank out 275hp on the same engine. Granted they have a better exhaust as well. We need 18.2psi for 252/255hp.
And they can get 300whp with just an intake upgrade and JB4!
On the downside, they have to suffer torque steer!
Best I think I'm at is 300hp/315tq at the crank.

 
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canucklehead604

one of the few 6MTs...
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But kinda who cares, though? Like, the peak horsepower number is one single number, and you can never represent performance with a single number. Maybe looking at the horsepower curves would explain this; maybe it's something about the transmission's gear choices; whatever.

The important thing is that the 0-60 times, and other tested performance numbers, have always been out there. Nobody was walking around thinking that a 2.0T was as fast as the 330i or Giulia or whatever else no matter what the peak hp is, because we've always had the numbers that very clearly say it's slower. (And plus, buyers pretty much always test drive, and will either be okay with the speed or not.)

To me, the impressive takeaway of this comparison is that even with the 2.0T's slow acceleration, they still liked it better than a loaded 330i.
^ sort of yes, and sort of no. i agree that besting the 330i despite the acceleration data is impressive. the cost difference also cannot be ignored, along with servicing and warranty considerations. plus, the G70 is a great all around package.

as for the actual data, the 'published' data that has generally been available has been all over the map. i've seen reports of 0-60 times ranging from 6s to well over 7s. so it has not been clear. we've been waiting for head-to-head comparo test data to validate how the 2.0T stacks up against the competition. this is the first test i've seen to provide that. my preferred source is C&D so hopefully that comes along.

who cares? perhaps not many people. but science/physics/logic should still prevail, all things being relatively equal. i.e., if the Stinger 2.0T tests at 6.2s 0-60, the G70 with identical powertrain/gearing but weighing hundreds of lbs less must be quicker, right? and against the competition (not Giulia 2.0T with 280hp/300+tq), the numbers are all comparable. sure there are minor deltas with some specs, but generally the numbers are similar. gearing, weights, torque, hp, aero, balance, etc. so how are we seeing such large discrepancies with test data?

heck, the 330i even has taller gearing so if anything the G70 should have an initial acceleration advantage. not so.

a few scenarios:
1. all competitors are under-rating their powerplants (zee Germans may do this, but also Honda, Nissan, and others too? c'mon...)
2. Genesis is over-rating its powerplant (most concerning if true)
3. errors with G70 published mechanical specs
4. dunno what else...

my problem with item #1 above, is that this would have to be a very widespread under-rating. i had a 2004 G35 which had 260hp/260tq with much higher peaks than the G70, whose torque comes online at 1400rpm. similar weight, gearing (6MT), balance, etc. the g35 data shows 5.9s 0-60 and 14.2 in the 1/4 mile. and the G35 was not known to have an under-rated engine, and its data was in-line with expectations.
______________________________
 

NLJ

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^ sort of yes, and sort of no. i agree that besting the 330i despite the acceleration data is impressive. the cost difference also cannot be ignored, along with servicing and warranty considerations. plus, the G70 is a great all around package.

as for the actual data, the 'published' data that has generally been available has been all over the map. i've seen reports of 0-60 times ranging from 6s to well over 7s. so it has not been clear. we've been waiting for head-to-head comparo test data to validate how the 2.0T stacks up against the competition. this is the first test i've seen to provide that. my preferred source is C&D so hopefully that comes along.

who cares? perhaps not many people. but science/physics/logic should still prevail, all things being relatively equal. i.e., if the Stinger 2.0T tests at 6.2s 0-60, the G70 with identical powertrain/gearing but weighing hundreds of lbs less must be quicker, right? and against the competition (not Giulia 2.0T with 280hp/300+tq), the numbers are all comparable. sure there are minor deltas with some specs, but generally the numbers are similar. gearing, weights, torque, hp, aero, balance, etc. so how are we seeing such large discrepancies with test data?

heck, the 330i even has taller gearing so if anything the G70 should have an initial acceleration advantage. not so.

a few scenarios:
1. all competitors are under-rating their powerplants (zee Germans may do this, but also Honda, Nissan, and others too? c'mon...)
2. Genesis is over-rating its powerplant (most concerning if true)
3. errors with G70 published mechanical specs
4. dunno what else...

my problem with item #1 above, is that this would have to be a very widespread under-rating. i had a 2004 G35 which had 260hp/260tq with much higher peaks than the G70, whose torque comes online at 1400rpm. similar weight, gearing (6MT), balance, etc. the g35 data shows 5.9s 0-60 and 14.2 in the 1/4 mile. and the G35 was not known to have an under-rated engine, and its data was in-line with expectations.
I think it is the ECU and TCU trying to protect the powertrain. Took me a lots of luck to launch at 6.0secs stock.
 

mkozlows

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but science/physics/logic should still prevail, all things being relatively equal. i.e., if the Stinger 2.0T tests at 6.2s 0-60, the G70 with identical powertrain/gearing but weighing hundreds of lbs less must be quicker, right? and against the competition (not Giulia 2.0T with 280hp/300+tq), the numbers are all comparable. sure there are minor deltas with some specs, but generally the numbers are similar. gearing, weights, torque, hp, aero, balance, etc. so how are we seeing such large discrepancies with test data?
The thing you're ignoring is that horsepower isn't a single number. The "horsepower" number that you get is the peak horsepower, tied to a particular RPM; but what matters for acceleration is the area under the horsepower curve as it goes up from like 1000 RPM to its peak. Two cars can be rated at the same peak horsepower but have very different curves.

I don't know what the horsepower curve looks like for the G70 or the 330i (the only site that claims to show them doesn't look correct), but it's totally possible that looking at those would explain it all.
 

canucklehead604

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^ yes, i focus more on torque curves for off-the-line response. the G70 peaks at 1400, the 330i at 1550. with a turbo the curve is usually quite flat until ~4500 where it starts to drop off and which is where hp tends to peak. so the area under the curve should be comparable - except the 330i has a 13% peak torque advantage.

hp is a function of torque and rpm, not really my focus.
 

Toddasaurus

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If I remember I will.
I've seen it have the label stamped on it anyway!
Cool. Would be interesting to see if it has a model number on there... The 3.3tt uses Garrett turbos as well, though there is some disagreement as to exactly which model they are, or which commercially available turbo they are most related to, as I'm sure they're custom made for Hyundai/Genesis. Perhaps a turbo upgrade would be easier on the 2.0!
 

NLJ

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Cool. Would be interesting to see if it has a model number on there... The 3.3tt uses Garrett turbos as well, though there is some disagreement as to exactly which model they are, or which commercially available turbo they are most related to, as I'm sure they're custom made for Hyundai/Genesis. Perhaps a turbo upgrade would be easier on the 2.0!
A Garrett employee here chimes to say that the 2.0T is a GT20 series and the 3.3T is a GT14s: Kia Stinger Big Turbo Thread

The Turbochargerspec Blog guy says:
"Hello, there's not much information out yet about the Kia Stinger 2.0 turbos so I can only guess at the moment and go with the little info there is. They do seem to use Garrett turbos but they are also specifically made for Kia. Considering the 2.0L I-4 engine output is 255hp then the closest GT20 Garrett turbo would be the GT2056 turbocharger. However this would only be the case if the turbos are journal bearing, at this moment I don't know if they are journal bearing or ball bearing turbos. If however the turbo is a ball bearing turbo then it could be something similar to the GT2554R turbo. But in either case I guess it is probably a hybrid turbo with either a different compressor or turbine from the GT2056, or a hybrid GT2554R turbo.

I can't find any info on what stock boost pressures are but I assume Kia would run around 10 psi or 0.7bar boost on these engines to make the 255hp. If this is the case and Kia use a compressor wheel similar to the GT2056 turbocharger then there is a good chance that the engine can run close to 300hp if the boost pressure is increased to 15-17 psi or around 1.2 bar boost with the stock turbo, if it is similar in performance to the GT2056 turbo that is. Then again if the turbo is more like the GT2554R, then the turbo would be maxed out around 270hp with the same boost pressures.

A good upgrade turbocharger would be the GT2560R turbo, with a good setup at around 17-18 psi or 1.3 bar boost you would see around 330hp with that turbocharger."
 
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Toddasaurus

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jailer

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Personally, I think the GT2560R would be a better replacement for the 3.3. It's the most compact GT25 turbo from Garrett, plus the ball bearing is nice. Each bank from the V6 is about 1.65 liters, which is perfect for that little guy.

I think the GT28RS would be a sweeter deal on the 2.0! Or better yet, the newer G25-550 twin scroll.
G25-550 around $1800 That twin scroll must really make a difference.
 

NLJ

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I don't think the 2.0T stock turbo likes a lot of boost without some bolt-ons. I dropped 0.4secs with just +1psi all across the rpm range. And only another 0.1secs with a custom Map6.
I think I'll stop and be happy at 5.3secs.
 
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