Navigation system software update

[gperzel]

Hi Guys;
I am really getting confused.
MattZ has a 2010 V8 with Tech, according to his posted profile. Does this have a touch screen Nav? I thought 2009 and 2010 models with Tech had the same hardware.
My dealer said the TSB noted for the 2010 can not be installed in the 2009-cause problems, void warranty, possible tidal wave,etc
I am starting to suspect that Hyundai has a major issue with the map upgrade involving Tech package firmware/software in the 2009's and they cannot release any map upgrade until they get this issue resolved, even if it is not a problem for the 2010's..
I spoke to the assistant to the Pres of Hyundai USA who says release will happen "soon", with no estimate of what "soon" means.

 

[Matt Z]

My vehicle is a tech package with the DIS and I only quoted the service writer whowas sitting in my car when he told about the 1 disc vs. 3 disc update. He wasn't sure but also thought that you needed a laptop with the USB cable to install

 

[smhirsch]

Hi Guys;
I am really getting confused.
MattZ has a 2010 V8 with Tech, according to his posted profile. Does this have a touch screen Nav? I thought 2009 and 2010 models with Tech had the same hardware.
My dealer said the TSB noted for the 2010 can not be installed in the 2009-cause problems, void warranty, possible tidal wave,etc
I am starting to suspect that Hyundai has a major issue with the map upgrade involving Tech package firmware/software in the 2009's and they cannot release any map upgrade until they get this issue resolved, even if it is not a problem for the 2010's..
I spoke to the assistant to the Pres of Hyundai USA who says release will happen "soon", with no estimate of what "soon" means.

Unless MattZ's 2010 4.6 w/Technology package has already had a partial update (not sure if this is possible) for everything BUT the map update, I can't understand why a service tech would tell him that he only needs a one disc update. That just wouldn't make sense, as I'm sure he's got the same model that I do, and mine took three.

What I do know is that these update discs are not CDs but rather are DVDs, so when you consider that a CD typically contains only 700MB and a DVD typically holds 4.7GB, it becomes understandable why the update can take so very long (that's a large amount of data to transfer).

Keep in mind that the 3 DVD update contains more than just map data (which is allegedly contained on all of them) and updates software versions of parts of the Navi/DIS system as well as the maps themselves. I imagine we're talking about points of interest and other items that aren't blatantly documented. DVD 3 shows not only navigation map Database, but also HU software and UTA software (I don't know their respective purposes). The claims are that DVDs 1 and 2 take 50 minutes each and that DVD 3 takes 80 minutes.

Hope that clears some things up!

 

[smhirsch]

My vehicle is a tech package with the DIS and I only quoted the service writer whowas sitting in my car when he told about the 1 disc vs. 3 disc update. He wasn't sure but also thought that you needed a laptop with the USB cable to install

Oh that's bordering on ridiculous, considering you have a 6 DVD changer in the car directly tied into the Navigation and DIS head unit, and that's exactly how they update them!

Either the service writer has no experience with a Technology Package Genesis or was under the influence of something illegal...

 

[ctrcbob]

Oh that's bordering on ridiculous, considering you have a 6 DVD changer in the car directly tied into the Navigation and DIS head unit, and that's exactly how they update them!

Either the service writer has no experience with a Technology Package Genesis or was under the influence of something illegal...

Ditto!

The Service Writer does not know what he is talking about. (Service Writers have been known to say anything, then come to find out, they were wrong).

The Tech Pkg takes the three Disc's to update the hard drive, and takes three hours to update. Dealer keeps these discs.

The NON-Tech, like the Standard 2010 4.6 takes one disc that you buy and takes about two minutes to upgrade. This disc stays in the car.

The 2009's (both 3.8 and 4.6) with DIS and Navi, had the Tech Pkg. If a 2009did not have Tech, it did not have Navi.

The 2010's with the 4.6 (NON Tech Pkg), come standard with the Touch Screen Navi Unit. The 4.6 with the Tech Pkg comes with the Hard Drive Navi unit, same as the 2009's. The 2010 4.6 Tech Pkg also comes with additional things that do not come on the 2009's.

Don't know what comes on the 2010 3.8 models.

The NON-Tech Navi units are updated with a Disc that you buy, and that Disc stays in the car. When you need a new disc, you buy it, (you own it) remove the previous disc and insert the new disc. You own and keep the discs.

The Tech Navi units are updated with three discs that are owned by the Hyundai Dealer. These three discs DO NOT STAY IN THE CAR. They are only used to update the Hard Drive in the car. These three discs are a tool, owned by the dealer, just like any other Hyundai tool, and used to update additional cars.

Do not get confused by the two very different Navi units and the two very different methods used to update maps.

 

[rv65]

I have a feeling that the '10 premium plus and base 4.6 is built on the Sonata where you have to insert a disc, let it update, call M&Soft, and enter in a security code. Not all touch screen systems are DVD based. There are some from other manufacturers that are HDD based, and the ones Hyundai uses use Flash memory. Any pics of the base 4.6/Premium plus Nav system for 2010.

Edit: The Hyundai touch screen systems take about 90 minutes though some models also use a rather old LG system that uses an 8 GB CF card. Those models you just pop out the old CF card and put in the new one, or you send in the CF card to M&Soft and they reprogram it. However, you lose NAV until you get the new card back. When you do the CF card swap you have to send in your old card back to M&Soft and they charge extra for it, but they reimburse you so it's really $199.

 

[ctrcbob]

I have a feeling that the '10 premium plus and base 4.6 is built on the Sonata where you have to insert a disc, let it update, call M&Soft, and enter in a security code. Not all touch screen systems are DVD based. There are some from other manufacturers that are HDD based, and the ones Hyundai uses use Flash memory. Any pics of the base 4.6/Premium plus Nav system for 2010.

Edit: The Hyundai touch screen systems take about 90 minutes though some models also use a rather old LG system that uses an 8 GB CF card. Those models you just pop out the old CF card and put in the new one, or you send in the CF card to M&Soft and they reprogram it. However, you lose NAV until you get the new card back. When you do the CF card swap you have to send in your old card back to M&Soft and they charge extra for it, but they reimburse you so it's really $199.

I guess there are so many different systems out there, now I'm even getting confused. All I can say is that in my previous MKZ, with a touch screen unit, all I did was to purchase a new disc when the manufacturer offered it to me, and paid $159 for it. (regular price was around $200) Removed the older (out of date) disc and inserted the new disc. Once installed, it took less than one minute for the new map display to come up. Easy as pie. When I sold the car, the newer disc was in the navi slot, and the older disc was in a box in the glove box. Why can't they all be this easy. What happened to K I S S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid!)

 

[smhirsch]

I guess there are so many different systems out there, now I'm even getting confused. All I can say is that in my previous MKZ, with a touch screen unit, all I did was to purchase a new disc when the manufacturer offered it to me, and paid $159 for it. (regular price was around $200) Removed the older (out of date) disc and inserted the new disc. Once installed, it took less than one minute for the new map display to come up. Easy as pie. When I sold the car, the newer disc was in the navi slot, and the older disc was in a box in the glove box. Why can't they all be this easy. What happened to K I S S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid!)

All interesting questions, and while I wish I had an answer for you (being that I'm a technology guy) I can't give you one.

I can share that on my previous vehicle (a 2007 Infiniti G35x) the Navi system was also Hard Drive based and obtaining an update for it was very similar to the DIS/Technology package update that we've been discussing. It was also very pricey and purportedly took over 3 hours to install.

The Infiniti's Navi unit (still being offered in the G, M, and also Nissan Maxima with technology package) has a touch screen, very intuitive, and ties in with the bluetooth voice activation system to do more than what the Genesis currently offers. For instance, you can also control the automatic climate control by saying "temperature 72" and it will do the adjustment for you.

I expect that as new year models roll out, we'll start to see some technology updates/upgrades and features that have been getting discussed in other forums. Obviously no system is perfect, and Hyundai has done a pretty darned good job at their first two year's offerings.

I'm on a lease, and did so for reasons such as this, hoping that by the time 2013 rolls around, the Genesis sedan will not only have a combination touch screen / DIS system, but also niceties such as power side view mirrors, cooled passenger seat, AWD, 8 speed transmission, direct-injected engine, and a list of others that I could already put over 20 items. Again, these things are discussed in other forums.

 

[GripperDon]

smhirsch Hey tech guy post a bit about your background, looking forward to additions to the tech group.

 

[Pahaska]

Checked this morning. Still not in stock, but the price is now $199, down from the original $220. At least, something is changing on their website.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[mrgenesis2009]

Yeah, I noticed the price drop too but then started to second guess myself whether it was that way before. I'm glad I'm not losing my mind

 

[smhirsch]

smhirsch Hey tech guy post a bit about your background, looking forward to additions to the tech group.

I'd be glad to!

I earned a Bachelor of Science degree in Computer Science with a Minor in Mathematics from the University of Missouri in '85, owned a VAR / Custom built PC and consulting business for about 10 years, and I currently work for a small-medium sized technology integration consulting company. I'm currently working on a project for the US Navy that addresses tactical collaboration needs at sea.

I tend to be the "go to guy" in my family and circle of friends for everything from computers/electronics to other household issues including plumbing.

I'm quite the automobile aficionado, and have always had a taste for the technological toys offered in the vehicles I drive. Somehow I end up training my sales people whether I expect to or not.

Was there something specific that you were looking to discover about me past this?

 

[mrgenesis2009]

Ahh, a fellow Comp Sci guy and in the DoD industry too

Ben

 

[Seattle Genesis]

They aren't because they don't involve material defects or workmanship. There's also an argument that maps are more like a wear item--expected to become less useful over time (you wouldn't expect a road atlas manufacturer to provide new maps free of charge every year). The source of these maps (NAVTEQ) charges everyone for maps, and it's not an insignificant charge for a database that covers most streets in the country.

And then there's the facts that everyone charges about that much for update discs and they have a captive audience that has no choice but to either buy the updates or do without updated maps.

Just got off the phone with my dealer. they are not providing an update for this at all..

 

[smhirsch]

Ahh, a fellow Comp Sci guy and in the DoD industry too

Ben

You know what they say... "it's a dirty job... but somebody's got to do it."

 

[GripperDon]

Smhirsh check out www.etherion.com ten years in business on the first of Feb.

 

[smhirsch]

Smhirsh check out www.etherion.com ten years in business on the first of Feb.

Is it safe to assume this is you?

 

[gperzel]

Hi Guys;
Hold on to your hats- the latest info is not good.
After registering a number of complaints via email regarding the NAV update fiasco to HM USA, I have been contacted via phone by a member of the staff of the Pres (John Krafcik), and told the following:
1. The next map update for ANY year Genesis will not be available until the fourth quarter of this year AT THE EARLIEST.
2. The map data in the 3 disc TSB for the 2010's is newer info than in the current 2009 database.
3. No explanation of why this map update data is not available for the 2009's.
4. The 3 disc TSB exists to primarily fix software issues in the Tech package for the 2010's. I was told this issues do not exist in the 2009's.

If you want a direct response, I suggest you email the Pres at jkrafcik@hmausa.com with your comments and concerns on this issue.
Edit/Delete Message

 

[ctrcbob]

Hi Guys;
Hold on to your hats- the latest info is not good.
After registering a number of complaints via email regarding the NAV update fiasco to HM USA, I have been contacted via phone by a member of the staff of the Pres (John Krafcik), and told the following:
1. The next map update for ANY year Genesis will not be available until the fourth quarter of this year AT THE EARLIEST.
2. The map data in the 3 disc TSB for the 2010's is newer info than in the current 2009 database.
3. No explanation of why this map update data is not available for the 2009's.
4. The 3 disc TSB exists to primarily fix software issues in the Tech package for the 2010's. I was told this issues do not exist in the 2009's.

If you want a direct response, I suggest you email the Pres at jkrafcik@hmausa.com with your comments and concerns on this issue.
Edit/Delete Message

If you do send an email, ask why is the Navi update not allowed on the 09's.
Also, why do the 10's have software issues but not the 09's.
What is different in the 09 software operation than in the 10 software operation?

When I email him, I will tell him that "I WANT MY NAVI MAP UPDATED". I know there will be a charge, and it is to be expected, but I need updated maps!

 

[gperzel]

Hi Guys;
After some reflection, I am beginning to get a grasp on what I think the real problem with the map upgrade is.
First of all, the players:
A. Hyundai Motor- parent company
B. Hyundai USA- USA operations -responsible for USA oriented upgrades
C. Map&Soft- integrates map data into Tech Pkg. software
D. NavTeq- provides basic map data and changes
E. Unknown Software company- provides Tech Pkg software and integration
F. Harmon Kardon-provides Tech Pkg. hardware

The Genny Tech Pkg is much more than just a Nav system- it contains integrated software that controls a bunch of functions. The more comples- the more prone to bugs and requirement for fixes.

C.'s revenue stream is based on selling map upgrades for all Hyundai and Kia Nav systems. I have been told that the latest map upgrade data for the Genesis was requested and provided to Hyundai in the fall of 2009. This info was incorporated into the TSB along with software fixes (for the 2010's only??) and provided at NO CHARGE to the 2010 owners. Since this was for new vehicles, Map&Soft did not receive any sales revenue for this data-probably got a development fee only.
Now, how do they handle the 2009's? The same software fixes are probably required but to allow the TSB to apply to the 2009's would eliminate the upgrade revenue stream for Map&Soft, as many 2009 owners would view the TSB as a warranty issue. I have been told that the map upgrade, whenever issued, will require a visit to the dealer and require about 3 hours to install- sound familiar??
In retrospect, I believe that Hyundai has not come up with a distribution method for the map upgrade alone that can be done easily by the owner and this threatens Map&Soft revenue base- hence the current dilemma and mounting frustration among Genny owners.