Supercharger or twin turbo

j_fields1357

Hasn't posted much yet...
36
4
8
virginia
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
Okay. Do you know of any software that's compatible to re-flash the 4.6 ECU?
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Turboba6

Registered Member
52
2
8
Updates?? I'm Also looking for a Supercharger Kit for my 2013 5.0 (Equus) I think an 11sec Equus would Open a few eyes!!!
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ThunderChicken

Registered Member
65
9
8
USA
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
I've always thought that the M122 with the laminova cores that come stock on Cadillacs would be pretty nice on a 5.0

Intake flange adapters may be needed but it appears that the M122 has similar port spacing.
 

g_940748

If you get a Kit for the 4.6 OR 5.0 I Will Buy it for SURE! As I have a 2011 Equus (4.6) and a 2013 (5.0)...!!
 

j_fields1357

Hasn't posted much yet...
36
4
8
virginia
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
Got to a certain point in the design and unfortunately haven't made any progress since middle of last year. I'd say it is 75% designed but no physical parts have been made or tested. Supercharger is at one users house and the car at another, if it was all in one place more progress may have been made. A 3-D printed prototype was not made due to the cost. The path the ports on the adapter would have to take are complex and there is no way to reduce their angle with the current thickness at 1.50". Could increase it but the hood most likely wouldn't be able to close. Feel bad not being able to dedicate any time to this because it looks like it could possibly work.

Since the ports and bolt patterns for the supercharger and engine block only vary slightly it makes it difficult to bolt together. If they were farther apart they wouldn't potentially occupy the same space in the adapter. Hardest part about this is being able to attach the adapter to the engine block and the lack of space. Shorter studs are required in the block and it would attach with a nut on top. The supercharger would bolt down from the top like normal.

Some screen grabs attached for reference. I was working with Tailwalker and 84FordMan on this and would be willing to hand over what I have done to anybody with SolidWorks and Engineering experience who wants to continue this venture. I'm sure they still would like to install this.

Adapter Assembly




Bottom/Engine Side of Adapter


Top/Supercharger Side of Adapter
Do you still have these plans? I'd love to see what i could come up with.
 

edizzle89

Registered Member
111
32
28
Columbus, IN
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
Honestly I would be more then willing to cut a hole in my hood with the blower hanging out if that adapter needs to be taller. But after having a few things custom machined I'm gonna guess that the adapter is going to be pricey.
 

xiaphin

KDModerator
MODERATOR
SUPPORTING MEMBER
1,164
7
38
NC
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
Do you still have these plans? I'd love to see what i could come up with.
+1 on this^^^
I sent my SolidWorks design to Tailwalker and 84FordMan who I was working with. Believe they continued to work on it and had a prototype made, but don't quote me on that. Have to ask them if it would be ok for me to send you what I worked on. I do still have all the files in the state prior to hand-off a year or two back.
 

j_fields1357

Hasn't posted much yet...
36
4
8
virginia
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
I sent my SolidWorks design to Tailwalker and 84FordMan who I was working with. Believe they continued to work on it and had a prototype made, but don't quote me on that. Have to ask them if it would be ok for me to send you what I worked on. I do still have all the files in the state prior to hand-off a year or two back.
Okay thanks!!
 

carguy75

Registered Member
502
148
43
Atlanta, Georgia
Genesis Model Type
2G Genesis Sedan (2015-2016)
Can our engine/transmission even survive the extra horsepower/torque gained that is created by a turbo or supercharger. Do our engines have an open deck or closed deck? How strong are our main bearings and rods?

Yes, you can make a custom turbo/supercharger unit for any engine, but most engines require extensive internal upgrades to survive forced induction without tearing itself apart.

Even Hyundai designed a completely different engine(3.3 V6) for forced induction instead going with the 4.6 or 5.0 V8 engines. They may not handle force induction reliably unless completely overhauled internally.

It would seem to be easier to just pickup a used 3.3 turbo engine in a few years, tune it and retro fit one to the older Genesis chassis for some serious power gains.

Well, that is what I would do for a project when my Genesis is paid off and the engine has more than 200k miles.:)

Used 2015-2016 5.0 engines are going for about $5k or less online, so I bet in a few years some 3.3t engines will be selling for about the same price.
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edizzle89

Registered Member
111
32
28
Columbus, IN
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
Can our engine/transmission even survive the extra horsepower/torque gained that is created by a turbo or supercharger. Do our engines have an open deck or closed deck? How strong are our main bearings and rods?

Yes, you can make a custom turbo/supercharger unit for any engine, but most engines require extensive internal upgrades to survive forced induction without tearing itself apart.
There are several engines that can take a good amount of boost with stock internals. The LS and Coyote 5.0 guys are making north of 500whp left and right on stock engines like it's nothing. You dont get to that point without a little trial and error, maybe our engines are right up there with the LS guys as far as internal strength and maybe they aren't, but you wont know until you try.

Also pretty much any production engine out there can handle ~7 psi of boost (with proper supporting mods like fuel system and a good tune), it doesn't add that much additional stress on the internals. And on a v8 like ours 7 psi can add a healthy power bump.
 

carguy75

Registered Member
502
148
43
Atlanta, Georgia
Genesis Model Type
2G Genesis Sedan (2015-2016)
There are several engines that can take a good amount of boost with stock internals. The LS and Coyote 5.0 guys are making north of 500whp left and right on stock engines like it's nothing. You dont get to that point without a little trial and error, maybe our engines are right up there with the LS guys as far as internal strength and maybe they aren't, but you wont know until you try.

Also pretty much any production engine out there can handle ~7 psi of boost (with proper supporting mods like fuel system and a good tune), it doesn't add that much additional stress on the internals. And on a v8 like ours 7 psi can add a healthy power bump.
I have an LS engine(LQ9) in my Escalade and it can handle some serious power upgrades in stock form, so yes some stock engine are over engineered in stock form to handle more power in the future by the automakers.

However, modern engines are usually making max power as is and is made to be lighter which means already stressed to the max in stock form with little wiggle room. The Ford Coyote 5.0 engine is made for pure performance and for power upgrades like force induction in Shelby models. Hyundai decided to use another engine for their performance force induction engine instead of the TAU V8 so that tells the story right there.

But, like you said you will not know the limits until you test it. I put my money behind a 3.3T as the Hyundai horsepower champion engine. Well ,at-least the one that will go the distance and not throw a rod the first chance it gets like a force induction stock 5.0 or 4.6.

However, it would be entertaining watching someone else try force inducting a stock internal 5.0 or 4.6 and see what happens.:)

Note: Our engine make 420hp due to a very high 11:5 compression. The stock high compression pistons at the very least has to change out so our engine will never run boost in stock form as an bolt on option.
 
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ThunderChicken

Registered Member
65
9
8
USA
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
Note: Our engine make 420hp due to a very high 11:5 compression. The stock high compression pistons at the very least has to change out so our engine will never run boost in stock form as an bolt on option.
High compression isn't really an issue with proper tuning.

These engines are built to last 100k, the stock tune should be somewhat conservative given their biasness towards fuel economy.

Time will ultimately tell once someone plops a blower on it with a decent tune.
 

carguy75

Registered Member
502
148
43
Atlanta, Georgia
Genesis Model Type
2G Genesis Sedan (2015-2016)
High compression isn't really an issue with proper tuning.

These engines are built to last 100k, the stock tune should be somewhat conservative given their biasness towards fuel economy.

Time will ultimately tell once someone plops a blower on it with a decent tune.
100k miles life span? Wow, that is a strong engine.:) Seriously, 100k miles in not benchmark to be proud of in a late model engine.

Well I guess we will see if it can survive force induction in stock form when someone ever design a kit for it. Chances are nil that it will happen since the 3.3T is more tuner friendly.

Most Genesis drivers are not trying to create high powered performance drag cars(I would) with their V8 engines, so it not a strong market for tuning companies to create any true performance parts for these engine. Hell, we can barely find aftermarket air intakes for the 4.6 or 5.0. Any turbo set-up for the 4.6 or 5.0 will be a custom a job only.

Note: No one will add force injection to a stock engine with compression as high as in our engines in stock form. But what do i know.:)
 
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