2015 Hyundai Genesis Sedan Spy Photos

[AntmanNC]

Just got word from my local Hyundai Rep, building starts February 2nd with schedule deliveries to hit dealerships in April

 

[Mark_888]

My impression has always been--and I'm pretty sure I've read Hyundai exec statements to this effect--that the Genesis is aimed squarely at the 500 series, E-series, M-level, A6 level of competition. If that's what you mean by "entry level," then I guess we simply disagree where that line falls. For me, it would be the small-body style sedans (300 series or C-class, etc.) and not the mid size ones.

Where we agree for sure is that it is about the price point for Hyundai. I get that and think that's exactly the plan they need to have. But I don't think they're going to make serious headway into the realm they're aiming at (500s, E-class, etc.) by failing to include features their competition has or will very soon have. They need to be packing essentially all the big things in and do so at a lower price. It's crazy to think they put a CO2-sensing system in but skimped on features (like surround camera system and contemporary headlamps) that really matter every day.

Yes, Hyundai had their eye on the BMW 5, MB E, Infinity M, etc when they "designed" the Genesis, but they are aiming for prices at the entry level luxury market. There is no way Hyundai can succeed in the USA going directly up against the those other cars at anywhere near the same price--they have to stay in entry level luxury pricing, and they can't do that by including every single option. Depreciation on the Genesis is much higher than on the other brands, so even if they sell for $10K less than the other brands, the Genesis would be priced too high. The Korean market is different, so they can offer those things there.

Those other features will likely show up on the Equus for those who want them.

In reality (as they have said many times) HMA doesn't expect to sell a lot of Genesis/Equus cars (relative to their other offerings) and they are using those two models to "build the brand" image in the USA so that eventually everyone looking at a Camry or Accord will at least test drive a Sonata, etc (which is not even close to being the case right now).

 

[Mark_888]

I agree completely. I think the only argument that can be made for the use of the term "entry level" in referring to the Genesis is that if Hyundai were to create a luxury brand right now it would be their lowest priced model in the brand.

HMA has already decided not to create a separate brand, since they want to use Genesis and Equus to improve the perception of the Hyundai brand, not to mention that the cost of creating a new brand with separate dealerships would add at least $5K to every unit.

 

[italiabrain]

HMA has already decided not to create a separate brand, since they want to use Genesis and Equus to improve the perception of the Hyundai brand, not to mention that the cost of creating a new brand with separate dealerships would add at least $5K to every unit.

I'm well aware of that. I never said or implied otherwise. I was simply saying that was the only context in which the vehicle itself (not the equivalently priced competitor's vehicle) would meet any criteria for entry level.

 

[YEH]

Yes, Hyundai had their eye on the BMW 5, MB E, Infinity M, etc when they "designed" the Genesis, but they are aiming for prices at the entry level luxury market. There is no way Hyundai can succeed in the USA going directly up against the those other cars at anywhere near the same price--they have to stay in entry level luxury pricing, and they can't do that by including every single option. Depreciation on the Genesis is much higher than on the other brands, so even if they sell for $10K less than the other brands, the Genesis would be priced too high. The Korean market is different, so they can offer those things there.

In reality (as they have said many times) HMA doesn't expect to sell a lot of Genesis/Equus cars (relative to their other offerings) and they are using those two models to "build the brand" image in the USA so that eventually everyone looking at a Camry or Accord will at least test drive a Sonata, etc (which is not even close to being the case right now).

Maybe not the Equus but Hyundai is expecting to sell 30k of the new Genesis sedan/yr - which is doable considering that Hyundai sold 23k in 2012 for a model that was on the downside of its life-cycle and w/o AWD.

Hyundai wants to keep costs down by limiting the amount of options (unlike the Germans where you can pretty much customize your order) and keeping things to a few packages, but I don't see why they couldn't offer an ultra tech package for those who want all the goodies.

Maybe they will do so down the line if they see customer demand for it.

The SX-L trim for the Kia Optima pretty much arose due to customer demand (with the refreshed SX-L getting more luxurious b/c of customer comments).

Price-wise, Hyundai has to undercut Lexus and Infiniti since they don't offer the luxury badge and separate dealership (the lux badge can be done w/o much cost), but going forward, Hyundai's luxury offerings will be priced above that of Acura (the Equus is already more expensive than the RLX).

Basically Hyundai offers RWD (+V8 on mid/high end models) w/o the badge/separate dealership whereas Acura offers the badge/separate dealership but w/o RWD.

The new Genesis will probably be priced higher than the TLX with the top Tau-powered Genesis being a good bit more expensive.

The upcoming Hyundai compact RWD sedan will also likely be a bit more than the ILX.

 

[Mark_888]

Maybe not the Equus but Hyundai is expecting to sell 30k of the new Genesis sedan/yr - which is doable considering that Hyundai sold 23k in 2012 for a model that was on the downside of its life-cycle and w/o AWD.

Isn't that for the Genesis sedan and coupe combined? They don't publish separate stats on those two. In any case, Hyundai sells more than 3 million vehicles worldwide each year (or about 700,000 units in the USA alone). I am sure that they expect to sell more Genesis sedans with the new 2015, assuming they can keep the price to below that of their competition.

 

[Mark_888]

Price-wise, Hyundai has to undercut Lexus and Infiniti since they don't offer the luxury badge and separate dealership (the lux badge can be done w/o much cost), but going forward, Hyundai's luxury offerings will be priced above that of Acura (the Equus is already more expensive than the RLX).

Basically Hyundai offers RWD (+V8 on mid/high end models) w/o the badge/separate dealership whereas Acura offers the badge/separate dealership but w/o RWD.

The new Genesis will probably be priced higher than the TLX with the top Tau-powered Genesis being a good bit more expensive.

The upcoming Hyundai compact RWD sedan will also likely be a bit more than the ILX.

Of course, on the Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura, if you step on the brakes the car will stop, and if that ever changed I am quite sure that those manufacturers would issue a recall to replace the defective parts, unlike Hyundai which does a half-ass brake fluid change even though they know all the early Genesis brakes will eventually fail. There is a reason why premium brands get premium prices.

 

[italiabrain]

The new Genesis will probably be priced higher than the TLX with the top Tau-powered Genesis being a good bit more expensive.

The upcoming Hyundai compact RWD sedan will also likely be a bit more than the ILX.

I agree here, but this is largely because Acura has given up on offering traditional luxury cars. I think the FWD RLX is a joke and from what I've heard its sales are horrible. The ILX is a Civic platform. If the Hyundai "compact luxury" equivalent were FWD and simply an uprated Elantra then it would undercut the ILX pricing as well.

I think the only comparison that will near apples-to-apples with Acura will be the '15 Genesis AWD Premium vs the TL-SH with Tech, they will be the only two with comparable drivetrains and featuresets imo. This should still give the Genesis a $3-5k advantage on the Acura.

I think the Genesis would get into more trouble with Infiniti since the models would theoretically be easier to cross shop. The 5.0 needs to significantly undercut the M56, same for the 3.8 and M37. It most likely will.

 

[Mark_888]

I think the Genesis would get into more trouble with Infiniti since the models would theoretically be easier to cross shop. The 5.0 needs to significantly undercut the M56, same for the 3.8 and M37. It most likely will.

I believe that the new Infiniti Q50 will compete with Genesis V6.

 

[NSXNEXT]

Of course, on the Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura, if you step on the brakes the car will stop, and if that ever changed I am quite sure that those manufacturers would issue a recall to replace the defective parts, unlike Hyundai which does a half-ass brake fluid change even though they know all the early Genesis brakes will eventually fail. There is a reason why premium brands get premium prices.

Oh you mean the Acura that put the band aid oil jet kit on their 5-speed transmissions to fix the 3rd gear clutch pack issue instead of acknowledging that it was an actual design problem.

Read the Acura forums and see how many people were unsuccessful in getting their transmissions replaced. Yeah they extended the warranty for a lot of people but a very large number were SOL. I am on my 3rd transmission on my TL.

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[Mark_888]

Oh you mean the Acura that put the band aid oil jet kit on their 5-speed transmissions to fix the 3rd gear clutch pack issue instead of acknowledging that it was an actual design problem.

Read the Acura forums and see how many people were unsuccessful in getting their transmissions replaced. Yeah they extended the warranty for a lot of people but a very large number were SOL. I am on my 3rd transmission on my TL.

There is a big difference between brake failure without any warning and transmission failure.

 

[NSXNEXT]

There is a big difference between brake failure without any warning and transmission failure.

Really? How about going 65 mph and suddenly your car shifts into 2nd gear causing you to lose control and crash.

Read the NHTSA research if you'd like to speak knowledgeably.

Before we get into a pissing match let's just agree to disagree.

 

[italiabrain]

There is a big difference between brake failure without any warning and transmission failure.

Not really, being dead in the water crossing an intersection or causing a drive wheel lockup can be just as dangerous. Sticking just to brakes, the Accord I had a few cars ago had a rear brake recall that took long enough that I had already traded the car in before I got paperwork on it. After that one I had an Infiniti that blew a clutch slave cylinder that they had moved inside the transmission housing (making it $$$$ to replace). It was covered by the plain wording of the warranty (as a seal within the transmission housing was what failed) AND I was persistently bringing it to their attention. They never would cover it.

 

[YEH]

Isn't that for the Genesis sedan and coupe combined? They don't publish separate stats on those two. In any case, Hyundai sells more than 3 million vehicles worldwide each year (or about 700,000 units in the USA alone). I am sure that they expect to sell more Genesis sedans with the new 2015, assuming they can keep the price to below that of their competition.

No, that's just for the sedan.

The sedan + coupe have sold over 30k over the past few years (as I had stated before, the coupe has been a sales failure for Hyundai, but then again, higher priced RWD Asian coupes have a tough time selling time competing against the pony cars which is why it is a good thing that the next coupe is going upmarket to compete in the entry luxury segment).

In 2012, the Lexus GS was brand new, but the Genesis (despite its age and no AWD) still outsold it.

The 2G Genesis should do about double the sales of the GS.

Of course, on the Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura, if you step on the brakes the car will stop, and if that ever changed I am quite sure that those manufacturers would issue a recall to replace the defective parts, unlike Hyundai which does a half-ass brake fluid change even though they know all the early Genesis brakes will eventually fail. There is a reason why premium brands get premium prices.

You should read up on all the class action lawsuits.

For Acura - there were class actions for:

1. transmission failure
2. rear brake pads
3. Collision Mitigation Braking System (not working as advertised)
4. defective window mechanisms

Also, numerous complaints for cracked dashboards, but since it's not a potential safety issue, probably out of luck.

And if more $$ is the answer than BMW, MB and Audi should be free of any problems and not have any disgruntled customers - right?

So all the BMW owners who had problems with failing fuel pumps (given the run around by BMW) should have just swallowed the corporate line; except ABC News came to their rescue and after the story aired, BMW finally did a recall.

I agree here, but this is largely because Acura has given up on offering traditional luxury cars. I think the FWD RLX is a joke and from what I've heard its sales are horrible. The ILX is a Civic platform. If the Hyundai "compact luxury" equivalent were FWD and simply an uprated Elantra then it would undercut the ILX pricing as well.

I think the only comparison that will near apples-to-apples with Acura will be the '15 Genesis AWD Premium vs the TL-SH with Tech, they will be the only two with comparable drivetrains and featuresets imo. This should still give the Genesis a $3-5k advantage on the Acura.

I think the Genesis would get into more trouble with Infiniti since the models would theoretically be easier to cross shop. The 5.0 needs to significantly undercut the M56, same for the 3.8 and M37. It most likely will.

Well, Acura never offered traditional (meaning RWD + V8) luxury sedans, so it's not like they are doing anything different.

Their problem has been design and that it is significantly harder to sell a FWD flagship sedan (esp. on that is transverse), tho Cadillac seems to do alright with sales of the XTS (granted not really a flagship, esp. with the CTS being higher priced and the LTS on the way).

Think the 2G Genesis equipped w/ the HTRAC system will be about the same, if not higher in price than the TLX with SHAWD.

 

[Mark_888]

You should read up on all the class action lawsuits.

For Acura - there were class actions for:

1. transmission failure
2. rear brake pads
3. Collision Mitigation Braking System (not working as advertised)
4. defective window mechanisms

Also, numerous complaints for cracked dashboards, but since it's not a potential safety issue, probably out of luck.

And if more $$ is the answer than BMW, MB and Audi should be free of any problems and not have any disgruntled customers - right?

So all the BMW owners who had problems with failing fuel pumps (given the run around by BMW) should have just swallowed the corporate line; except ABC News came to their rescue and after the story aired, BMW finally did a recall.

At no time did I claim other manufacturers don't have problems. But I do believe that if a sudden and total brake failure were involved they would fix it (unlike Hyundai).

The bottom line is that Hyundai is not perceived as a prestigious brand in the luxury car market, which is why they have to price their cars so much lower than the competition. You can belly-ache all you want about the reliability of the other brands, but people keep buying them and are willing to pay a lot more than an equivalent Hyundai.

 

[YEH]

At no time did I claim other manufacturers don't have problems. But I do believe that if a sudden and total brake failure were involved they would fix it (unlike Hyundai).

The bottom line is that Hyundai is not perceived as a prestigious brand in the luxury car market, which is why they have to price their cars so much lower than the competition. You can belly-ache all you want about the reliability of the other brands, but people keep buying them and are willing to pay a lot more than an equivalent Hyundai.

Personally, I think Hyundai should do a much better job addressing the brake failure, but such a reaction is commonplace in the industry.

There have been lawsuits directed at other automakers for brake issues and having the fuel pump fail on you or your engine blowing up (the M96 watercooled boxer engines) while you are going 80-85 on the HWY or crossing an intersection are also dangerous.

And there probably has been no one here who has remarked why the Genesis and Equus are lower priced than the competition (so you aren't telling me anything that I don't already know).

1. B/c they are new entrants (price will go up as they gain acceptance in the marketplace).

The LS400 was priced at $35k from the start which was cheaper than a well equipped mid-size Mercedes; Toyota did that low-ball pricing b/c that's what they needed to do to gain a foothold in the marketplace.

We have already seen the starting MSRP of the Genesis rise from the low $30k to the mid $30k and w/ the 2G Genesis, will see it rise close to the $40k mark.


2. Hyundai simply can't charge for things they don't offer - a luxury badge/brand, separate luxury dealership and higher end service.

So even if the Genesis and Equus gain total credibility/acceptance in the marketplace, they still have to undercut the competition due to the things they don't offer - approximately $6-8k per vehicle.

One reason why the Genesis has been lower in price compared to the competition than the Equus is b/c Hyundai had to factor in the price of luxury service (loaner vehicles, valet service, etc.).

Kia is even less a prestigious brand and yet they priced the Cadenza higher than the Avalon and Maxima.

The correlation that you are trying to make btwn price and reliability has little basis.

 

[Mark_888]

B/c they are new entrants (price will go up as they gain acceptance in the marketplace).

Yes, I understand the plan of buying market share. What I am trying to explain is that when Hyundai fails to address a problem that leads to complete and sudden brake failure for units built before June 1, 2010, they are never going to achieve the acceptance in the luxury market that they desire.

The pricing problem is not just for Genesis/Equus. For Sonata, Elantra, etc, Hyundai still has to sell at prices below comparable vehicles from Honda and Toyota. The truth is that an alarming number of Camry and Accord buyers never even considered nor test drove a Sonata. So the value proposition is not just a matter of Hyundai breaking into a new luxury market, since it is a problem that exist across all the segments they sell into.

Lexus did not start out with a reputation of poor Toyota quality (quite the contrary), a problem that still is in the minds of many Americans about Hyundai based on the disastrous introduction of Hyundai in the US market in the late 1980's and early 1990's. Even a few days ago, Jay Leno made a joke about Hyundai cars on the Tonight Show. I suppose that eventually those people who remember Hyundai from the 1980's and 1990's will die off, and younger people may give the brand more acceptance, but right now I think Hyundai is teetering on the edge of a public relations disaster with the Genesis brake failure issue.

It's one thing to say a car has this or that problem, which may (or may not) be under warranty. It is quite another thing to say that an auto maker knows the brakes have a good chance to eventually suffer a complete and sudden failure while trying to stop the car, but that Hyundai won't replace the defective part (which they know to be defective prior to June 1, 2010) until after the problem occurs.

 

[ronreal]

Also the new interface and swipe features in the new infotainment system is great! Very fast and responsive. Way better then the awful Cadillac cue.

I already have one Hyundai in our family. I bought my daughter a brand-new 2013 Elantra Limited with Nav (in 2013) and fortunately for her, she uses an iPhone 4S with the old iPhone 30-pin connector and it connects perfectly (displaying the song title, album info, and playing the music through the car's stereo). I hear that it's a little tricky when connecting her Elantra to an iPhone 5s. I personally use an iPhone 5s. I wonder if anyone knows if the new Hyundai Genesis for 2015 will connect smoothly with an iPhone 5s lightening connector. If you have a minute, please see the following video on youtube that shows the problem that Elantra owners have with the current Hyundai 30-pin iPod connector when used with the lightening adapter on a late-model Elantra:

http://youtu.be/_YiqYFKo_dQ

This video basically explains what my fears are when connecting an iPhone 5s to the new Hyundai Genesis.

I hope that Hyundai makes a new iPhone adapter that has been thoroughly tested and already uses a direct lightening connection (no lightening to 30-pin adapter needed), since Apple doesn't use the 30-pin connector anymore on any of their products since last year. The new Genesis has the latest infotainment system. It should hopefully "play nice" with an iPhone 5s or future iPhone models that use the Apple lightening connection. Does anyone know?

 

[PMCErnie]

Does anyone know why some of these subjects above are being discussed in a general discussion forum thread that talks about 2015 Genesis Spy Photos?

 

[Mark_888]

Does anyone know why some of these subjects above are being discussed in a general discussion forum thread that talks about 2015 Genesis Spy Photos?

Since the 2015 has been unveiled, and spy photos are no longer relevant, maybe this thread should be closed. There are other threads that discuss 2015 features, etc.