Genesis G80 - V6 or V8? What will be available?

[dareaction]

So if the G90 competes with the E-Class and the G80 competes with the C-Class then where will that leave the upcoming Genesis G70 sport sedan that was specifically stated to be going head to head with the 3-Series thus C-Class as well?

Also why would the head of Hyundai be proud to state that the current Hyundai Genesis is the 3rd best selling midsize luxury sedan behind only the E-Class and 5-Series only for it to be a simple C/3/A4 competitor only because you say so? Do you run the company? What does your Equus's inferior interior have to do with the Genesis G90 being designed to specifically target the S-Class/A8/7-Series class? Why would Hyundai stretch the wheelbase of the Equus by 5 in to match the LWB S-Class only to target the small E-Class? Why would the Genesis G80 have a stretched wheelbase of 118.5 in , 196.5 in overall length and a solid weight of 4200-4500 lbs of luxury isolation just to go up against a 110 in wheelbase, 180 in long, 3300-3700 lb compact 3-series?

 

[Nikgen]

So if the G90 competes with the E-Class and the G80 competes with the C-Class then where will that leave the upcoming Genesis G70 sport sedan that was specifically stated to be going head to head with the 3-Series thus C-Class as well?

Also why would the head of Hyundai be proud to state that the current Hyundai Genesis is the 3rd best selling midsize luxury sedan behind only the E-Class and 5-Series only for it to be a simple C/3/A4 competitor only because you say so? Do you run the company? What does your Equus's inferior interior have to do with the Genesis G90 being designed to specifically target the S-Class/A8/7-Series class? Why would Hyundai stretch the wheelbase of the Equus by 5 in to match the LWB S-Class only to target the small E-Class? Why would the Genesis G80 have a stretched wheelbase of 118.5 in , 196.5 in overall length and a solid weight of 4200-4500 lbs of luxury isolation just to go up against a 110 in wheelbase, 180 in long, 3300-3700 lb compact 3-series?

+1 - well said. Whether or not they are successful in luring those buyers is to be seen - but it seems pretty clear who/what they are targeting on value.

 

[dareaction]

+1 - well said. Whether or not they are successful in luring those buyers is to be seen - but it seems pretty clear who/what they are targeting on value.

Spot on man. I understand that the Genesis lineup may very well be slightly behind in some areas which could possibly include luxuriousness, quality but based on the Genesis G80 and its significant departure from the old Genesis this new Genesis brand will have more than enough to go up against their intended competition.

 

[turnne]

So if the G90 competes with the E-Class and the G80 competes with the C-Class then where will that leave the upcoming Genesis G70 sport sedan that was specifically stated to be going head to head with the 3-Series thus C-Class as well?

Also why would the head of Hyundai be proud to state that the current Hyundai Genesis is the 3rd best selling midsize luxury sedan behind only the E-Class and 5-Series only for it to be a simple C/3/A4 competitor only because you say so? Do you run the company? What does your Equus's inferior interior have to do with the Genesis G90 being designed to specifically target the S-Class/A8/7-Series class? Why would Hyundai stretch the wheelbase of the Equus by 5 in to match the LWB S-Class only to target the small E-Class? Why would the Genesis G80 have a stretched wheelbase of 118.5 in , 196.5 in overall length and a solid weight of 4200-4500 lbs of luxury isolation just to go up against a 110 in wheelbase, 180 in long, 3300-3700 lb compact 3-series?

the manufacturer can say anything they want to about what their cars compete with
Surely you have figured that out
there is more to a car class than wheel base and horse power

based on what you say...where does the Chrysler 300 sit?
Based on what you say the Equus would have been a sales competitor to the Lexus LS
It sold in fractional amounts to the LS

+1 - well said. Whether or not they are successful in luring those buyers is to be seen - but it seems pretty clear who/what they are targeting on value.

in regard to the Equus/G90..it is clear what they are targeting
However based on actual sales those buyers that they are looking to attract are driving past the Hyundai dealerships

Warren

 

[Nikgen]

in regard to the Equus/G90..it is clear what they are targeting
However based on actual sales those buyers that they are looking to attract are driving past the Hyundai dealerships

Warren

Ummmm... the G90 is not for sale yet, so how can anyone be driving past the dealerships???
...and the current Equus is largely irrelevant to how the new G90 will sell as the G90 is a completely new vehicle (a VASTLY improved one) and the first under a whole new brand marquee. Too early to say it won't draw targeted buyers!

 

[turnne]

Ummmm... the G90 is not for sale yet, so how can anyone be driving past the dealerships???
...and the current Equus is largely irrelevant to how the new G90 will sell as the G90 is a completely new vehicle (a VASTLY improved one) and the first under a whole new brand marquee. Too early to say it won't draw targeted buyers!

you contradicted yourself
You mention that no one knows anything about the G90...and then you say its a vastly improved product
How do you know that...I guess you drove it thanks the Equus back to back personally?
..and you never answered my other question
Where do you put a Chrysler 300?( based on your a fore mentioned criteria of what constitutes a luxury car class)
To be clear...I own an Equus...and have owned three Mercedes and a couple of BMW's in the past
The Equus is a great car for the money. I have no qualms with my purchase of it other than the horrible Hyundai dealership experience I had when I purchased it
However..it is simply not the equal of cars that cost 25-40K more
Conventional wisdom says it should not be
The G90 may be a different breed...we can convene this time next year and perhaps speak to that with some sales results
I just dont think the Equus was even considered by many as a full size luxury alternative..nor was it taken seriously by the car magazines /reviewers
Lets use an example that Hyundai stated the Equus competes with..Mercedes sold more S classes in a 10 month period last year than the Equus since the they were introduced in late 2010
Considering the price difference of say $35K in the two that is significant

Honestly..I dont know much about the Genesis...I have an older sister that bought one in 2009..a V8...and she is very happy with it. She has about 100K on it now
I have driven it once years ago....from what I recall its a very different car than the Equus
It also appears that they sold many more genesis than Equus...though as I recall they did have some Genesis sedans that were part of rental fleets?


Warren

 

[turnne]

I made a mistake ...because I quoted the wrong person that stated what constituted a car class

But..I will pose some questions to anyone who would like to answer

based on size ,HP numbers and available amenities
Where does the Chrysler 300 sit?

Also...since there were comparisons made about the Genesis made to the 5 series/ E class and 5 series

where does the Genesis sit in regard to price compared to those cars and even more importantly where has its resale historically fallen compared to those two cars?

as I recall in 2009 the price my sister paid for V8 genesis was about what she could have purchased a BMW 3 series for

Warren

 

[MoabGen]

you contradicted yourself
You mention that no one knows anything about the G90...and then you say its a vastly improved product
How do you know that...I guess you drove it thanks the Equus back to back personally?
..and you never answered my other question
Where do you put a Chrysler 300?( based on your a fore mentioned criteria of what constitutes a luxury car class)
To be clear...I own an Equus...and have owned three Mercedes and a couple of BMW's in the past
The Equus is a great car for the money. I have no qualms with my purchase of it other than the horrible Hyundai dealership experience I had when I purchased it
However..it is simply not the equal of cars that cost 25-40K more
Conventional wisdom says it should not be
The G90 may be a different breed...we can convene this time next year and perhaps speak to that with some sales results
I just dont think the Equus was even considered by many as a full size luxury alternative..nor was it taken seriously by the car magazines /reviewers
Lets use an example that Hyundai stated the Equus competes with..Mercedes sold more S classes in a 10 month period last year than the Equus since the they were introduced in late 2010
Considering the price difference of say $35K in the two that is significant

Honestly..I dont know much about the Genesis...I have an older sister that bought one in 2009..a V8...and she is very happy with it. She has about 100K on it now
I have driven it once years ago....from what I recall its a very different car than the Equus
It also appears that they sold many more genesis than Equus...though as I recall they did have some Genesis sedans that were part of rental fleets?


Warren

What? Can you write a coherent response that adds value to the conversation?

 

[Nikgen]

you contradicted yourself
You mention that no one knows anything about the G90...and then you say its a vastly improved product
How do you know that...I guess you drove it thanks the Equus back to back personally?

Warren

Deleted - double post

 

[Nikgen]

you contradicted yourself
You mention that no one knows anything about the G90...and then you say its a vastly improved product
How do you know that...I guess you drove it thanks the Equus back to back personally?

Warren

I didn't contradict myself at all! You were the one that stated that people were driving past the dealership when the G90 is not even for sale yet - I said nothing about the Equus.

With respect to my claim of the G90 being a vastly improved vehicle over the current Equus, there are plenty of actual hands on reviews and product information/specs/photos already out for the EQ900 to support that claim - if you bother to look.

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[jsmit86]

It is correct to say that one car does not compete with another solely based on wheelbase, length, and HP, those are still part of the competitive set.

Who is the target competition for Chrysler 300? Let's look to what Chrysler says...

http://www.chrysler.com/en/300/competitive-compare/

Avalon, LaCrosse, Taurus, and Impala.

G80 is aimed at E-Class and 5 Series.
If you doubt that is who Hyundai is targeting, see
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/genesis/comparison.aspx

You will see E-Class, GS, 5 Series, CTS and A6 referenced.


Does that mean it will outsell them out of the gate? No, of course not. Does it also mean that E-Class owners and 5 Series owners will be purchasing the G80 in droves, again... no, at least not initially.


What will happen, is that some folks who are considering their first BMW or Mercedes will give Genesis consideration, and some will purchase the Genesis. This is very similar to what happened in the early days of Lexus. Many first time buyers of luxury class vehicles bought Lexus based on the value. One could argue that the Lexus was not (and perhaps still is not) 100% the equal of the Germans. On the other hand, there are areas where Lexus has generally excelled. Reliability,cost of maintenance, etc.

G90 is clearly aimed at 7 Series and S-Class. That does not mean that out of the gate the G90 is 100% of the equal of those cars, but... you will see some folks who are considering the Germans make the switch based on value.

Hyundai understands well.. this is a Marathon, not a Sprint. They look to the success of Samsung as an example. 15 years ago, no one would suggest that a Samsung TV was in the same class as a Sony. Today, Samsung not only builds that class of product, but they outsell their Japanese competition by a large margin. Lexus was a case study for what you are about to witness.

 

[Nikgen]

It is correct to say that one car does not compete with another solely based on wheelbase, length, and HP, those are still part of the competitive set.

Who is the target competition for Chrysler 300? Let's look to what Chrysler says...

http://www.chrysler.com/en/300/competitive-compare/

Avalon, LaCrosse, Taurus, and Impala.

G80 is aimed at E-Class and 5 Series. Does that mean it will outsell them out of the gate? No, of course not. Does it also mean that E-Class owners and 5 Series owners will be purchasing the G80 in droves, again... no, at least not initially.

What will happen, is that some folks who are considering their first BMW or Mercedes will give Genesis consideration, and some will purchase the Genesis. This is very similar to what happened in the early days of Lexus. Many first time buyers of luxury class vehicles bought Lexus based on the value. One could argue that the Lexus was not (and perhaps still is not) 100% the equal of the Germans. On the other hand, there are areas where Lexus has generally excelled. Reliability,cost of maintenance, etc.

G90 is clearly aimed at 7 Series and S-Class. That does not mean that out of the gate the G90 is 100% of the equal of those cars, but... you will see some folks who are considering the Germans make the switch based on value.

Hyundai understands well.. this is a Marathon, not a Sprint. They look to the success of Samsung as an example. 15 years ago, no one would suggest that a Samsung TV was in the same class as a Sony. Today, Samsung not only builds that class of product, but they outsell their Japanese competition by a large margin. Lexus was a case study for what you are about to witness.

Now that's a coherent statement and I agree 100%!

 

[turnne]

I didn't contradict myself at all! You were the one that stated that people were driving past the dealership when the G90 is not even for sale yet - I said nothing about the Equus.

With respect to my claim of the G90 being a vastly improved vehicle over the current Equus, there are plenty of actual hands on reviews and product information/specs/photos already out for the EQ900 to support that claim - if you bother to look.

I was talking about sales of the Equus vs other cars
I stated that several times and gave the figures
Not sure how you could have missed that
I see where I stated it at least three times...

As for the G90..I have seen the hands on reviews

One of which...and surely you have seen it...where the reviewer states that the G90 has some deficiencies over cars that Hyundai says the car would compete with

you tube is your friend ...



Warren

 

[Nikgen]

I was talking about sales of the Equus vs other cars
I stated that several times and gave the figures
Not sure how you could have missed that
I see where I stated it at least three times...

I did not miss anything - the exact comment that you made that I specifically responded to was:

"in regard to the Equus/G90..it is clear what they are targeting
However based on actual sales those buyers that they are looking to attract are driving past the Hyundai dealerships"

So please do tell me how anyone is driving past the Hyundai deslerships for a car that is many months away from even hitting those showrooms...lol

As for the G90..I have seen the hands on reviews

One of which...and surely you have seen it...where the reviewer states that the G90 has some deficiencies over cars that Hyundai says the car would compete with

For significantly less $, I don't doubt it might have some "deficiencies" (and those cars might even have some deficiencies versus the G90), but that does not mean that the G90 can't compete! What some reviewers feel are deficiencies, may not be things that actually translate to real issues for potential buyers. Time will tell.

 

[turnne]

It is correct to say that one car does not compete with another solely based on wheelbase, length, and HP, those are still part of the competitive set.

Who is the target competition for Chrysler 300? Let's look to what Chrysler says...

http://www.chrysler.com/en/300/competitive-compare/

Avalon, LaCrosse, Taurus, and Impala.

G80 is aimed at E-Class and 5 Series.
If you doubt that is who Hyundai is targeting, see
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/genesis/comparison.aspx

You will see E-Class, GS, 5 Series, CTS and A6 referenced.


Does that mean it will outsell them out of the gate? No, of course not. Does it also mean that E-Class owners and 5 Series owners will be purchasing the G80 in droves, again... no, at least not initially.


What will happen, is that some folks who are considering their first BMW or Mercedes will give Genesis consideration, and some will purchase the Genesis. This is very similar to what happened in the early days of Lexus. Many first time buyers of luxury class vehicles bought Lexus based on the value. One could argue that the Lexus was not (and perhaps still is not) 100% the equal of the Germans. On the other hand, there are areas where Lexus has generally excelled. Reliability,cost of maintenance, etc.

G90 is clearly aimed at 7 Series and S-Class. That does not mean that out of the gate the G90 is 100% of the equal of those cars, but... you will see some folks who are considering the Germans make the switch based on value.

Hyundai understands well.. this is a Marathon, not a Sprint. They look to the success of Samsung as an example. 15 years ago, no one would suggest that a Samsung TV was in the same class as a Sony. Today, Samsung not only builds that class of product, but they outsell their Japanese competition by a large margin. Lexus was a case study for what you are about to witness.

Again..
Manufactures always tend to "look up" to what their cars will actually compete with


Actual sales( and resale values) really speak to what success they have.
Lexus( and Infiniti) are a different story from what Hyundai
Both Lexus and Infiniti started with stand alone dealerships and also made their premier service model a large part of the buying equation
Hyundai has done neither


Clearly this could change with stand alone dealerships and a premium service model. This would also add significantly to the price of their cars as well
So the "value" aspect of their luxury cars would be diminished
At the current model marketing plan..it looks like Hyundai is slating to compete with the 5 series at a 3 series price...right?

Cars like the Lexus LS haven't represented a "good value" in more than 15 years

One could point out that service costs down the road could be a factor..but purchase price is about the same its german competition

Its important to note here that both BMW and Mercedes Benz are numbers 1 and 2, respectively, in sales of luxury cars in the United States
The Mercedes S class..with 60% share of the US market in full size ultra luxury cars, sold more in 10 months of 2015 than all the Hyundai Equus cars in the United States in the last 5 years
As I said before, I have no complaints with my Equus for its price
Do I think its the equivalent of any of the BMW/Mercedes vehicles I have owned in the past?
I dont...but why should I at its price?
I for one think that the Equus ( and Kia 900) represent phenomenal values
I see the Youtube review of the G90 and right off the bat the reviewer says its missing some finish aspects of the big boys
I say again...for $20K less should you expect the same level of finishes and premier service?

Warren

 

[turnne]

I did not miss anything - the exact comment that you made that I specifically responded to was:

"in regard to the Equus/G90..it is clear what they are targeting
However based on actual sales those buyers that they are looking to attract are driving past the Hyundai dealerships"

So please do tell me how anyone is driving past the Hyundai deslerships for a car that is many months away from even hitting those showrooms...lol

LOL....I gave the actual numbers compared to the Equus

For significantly less $, I don't doubt it might have some "deficiencies" (and those cars might even have some deficiencies versus the G90), but that does not mean that the G90 can't compete! What some reviewers feel are deficiencies, may not be things that actually translate to real issues for potential buyers. Time will tell.

sounds like we agree....


Warren

 

[turnne]

I assume you gentlemen are genesis owners?

How does the resale value of the Genesis compare to a car that costs about the same...such as the BMW 3 series?

Warren

 

[Nikgen]

LOL....I gave the actual numbers compared to the Equus

Then you should have left out the G90 from your statement as the G90 is a significant improvement and could have very different sales numbers...when it is actually available to buy.

sounds like we agree....

Not really as you seem bent on saying that the G90 can't compete, when I think it can (for non brand snobs, at least). For example, as I stated previously, I find the images of the G90 interior to be nicer than the S class interior (and of similar material quality).

 

[Nikgen]

I assume you gentlemen are genesis owners?

How does the resale value of the Genesis compare to a car that costs about the same...such as the BMW 3 series?

Warren

I have no idea and why would I care when my Genesis is a really a class above a 3 series? I get that it may have higher depreciation than other brands at this point in time , but that really doesn't concern me.

 

[turnne]

Then you should have left out the G90 from your statement as the G90 is a significant improvement and could have very different sales numbers...when it is actually available to buy.

and you say this based on actually seeing/driving one?
time will tell on the sales numbers

Not really as you seem bent on saying that the G90 can't compete, when I think it can (for non brand snobs, at least). For example, as I stated previously, I find the images of the G90 interior to be nicer than the S class interior (and of similar material quality).

I am not bent on anything..other than the actual historic facts
I have already stated the sales of the Equus vs cars Hyundai says it competed with
I have stated my experience with ownership of those cars vs the Equus

I have seen the video of the youtube G90 review where he mentions a few deficiencies vs cars that Hyundai says their car will compete with.

As for competing with the S class
I havent seen the option list of the G90...but it sill have to be quite extensive and have several items that are cutting edge and unique to it to compete with an S class
I am not even bringing up what perceived resale value will be...thats a whole other issue
Though we should have the numbers of projected lease residuals of the G90 soon..that should shed some light on what to expect

Warren